Mediterranean Beauty (Italian, Spanish, Greek, Turkish,...)

[J.a.d.o.r.e]

The truth came to the lights when they caught her with her albanian passport.

[J.a.d.o.r.e]

Arvanites are Greeks also by DNA. Besides she is more greek by ethnicity because ethnicaly & culturaly.
Even if her ancestors from her father's side had mixed with Albanians it would be generations ago.
Only a part of Arvanites, the ones of North Epirus did mix with albanians.
Even in wikipedia you can find that...
"Arvanites in Greece originated from Albanian who moved south at different times between the 13th and 16th century from areas in what is today southern Albania."
Settlers were usually dorian populations. (Dorians were an ancient greek tribe relative to the macedonian that was in Epirus, a part of Thessaly and had also colonies in Crete and Asia Minor.
This is why there are ancient greek ruins in parts of south albania. Arvanites descented specificly from North Epirus which belonged to Greece in that time when Arvanites settled southern. Their language indeed is common with the albanian but also has a lot of greek charachteristics.
Eleni Foureira is a scumm. 5 years ago she was a nothing. The she did a thousand plastic surgeries, fake tanned herself , made her hair curly , lost 10 kilos and changed her name to Eleni Foureira and claimed to be half greek half mexican. Her real last name is Fourerai.

I'm not arguing about her nationality, she obviously perceives herself as Greek,
but she does have part-Albanian origin & a typical southern Albanian surname.
Even if Arvanites nowadays are hellenized, their origin cannot be disputed, it's Albanian & the ones that still speak Arvanitika,
speak an Albanian dialect, that was in contact with Greek. As simple as that.

They were considered ethnically distinct from the Greeks til' the 19th century.
They just wished to express their ethnic identification as Greeks in the late 20th century, that doesn't change their genes & origin,
ofcourse they mixed with Greeks, but the language & partially Albanian genes are still preserved.
Heck, in In 1899, leading representatives of the Arvanites in Greece, among them descendants of the independence heroes,
published a manifesto calling their fellow Albanians outside Greece to join in the creation of a common Albanian-Greek state.
It is not only common, it derives from Albanian & has Greek loanwords.

Yeah, IMO she looks horrible, but is it true that it's said that she was born in Fier, Southern Albania?
As of now, she doesn't look either Albanian or Greek at all, depends on how she used to look before, lol.

All I am trying to say is that their ancestors were nothing more than albanised Greeks in South Albania , like many Greeks that still live today in North Epirus.
Even if her ancestors mixed she would be like ... 1/18th albanian. Even further she's from the south of ioannina , a place with a minority of arvanites which means there is a large possibility her last name was nothing more than an ancestors nick name. Arvanite language was like the slang language for many epirotans and there are people that have no arvanitic descent but have arvanite last names which meant, balled, big head, small, big , tall , short and more to charachterize them as a nick name and was left to their children and their children's children. The majority of greek last names are from old jokes if you perceive it! My mom's great grandmother was called roussou because her grand father had red hair and reddish - brown eyes!.

There are some photos of Eleni Foureira before she had surgery or become that famous but their even more horrible and I don't wanna cause heart attacks.
Yes she was born in Fieri, her real name is Erailda (don't know If i spelled it right!) she still doesn't admit that she's albanian but she's just keep being silent so she won't have to say something.

[J.a.d.o.r.e]

All I am trying to say is that their ancestors were nothing more than albanised Greeks in South Albania , like many Greeks that still live today in North Epirus.
Even if her ancestors mixed she would be like ... 1/18th albanian. Even further she's from the south of ioannina , a place with a minority of arvanites which means there is a large possibility her last name was nothing more than an ancestors nick name. Arvanite language was like the slang language for many epirotans and there are people that have no arvanitic descent but have arvanite last names which meant, balled, big head, small, big , tall , short and more to charachterize them as a nick name and was left to their children and their children's children. The majority of greek last names are from old jokes if you perceive it! My mom's great grandmother was called roussou because her grand father had red hair and reddish - brown eyes!.

There are some photos of Eleni Foureira before she had surgery or become that famous but their even more horrible and I don't wanna cause heart attacks.
Yes she was born in Fieri, her real name is Erailda (don't know If i spelled it right!) she still doesn't admit that she's albanian but she's just keep being silent so she won't have to say something.

Yes, but Arvanites does not mean Albanized Greeks, it means modern-day ''Greeks'' of Albanian origin.
If you want to get into it, ''Eleni'' appears in Homer. But Homer teaches us that Ancient Greeks didn't
pronounce "Elenh" like nowadays Greeks do today. If we pronounce correctly in Ancient Greek,
like Hellenes used to, there are more similiarities with Arvanita (spoken by the Arvanites),
than with the modern day Greeks. There are more similarities between modern Albanian and modern Greek language
than between these languages with any other neighbor. This means that somehow both nations origins is commune.
For example, today's greeks say "Ελa". Albanians say "Eja". Greeks say "πληγή". We say "plagë".
Greeks say "ουρανός". Non-latinized form in albanian is "i vran". Greeks say "καλαμπόκι" we say "kallamboq".
They say "ντροπή", we say "drojë". Etc etc. The list is painfully long.

What you call "region" of Greece in Ancient times, was not part of Greece. What you call "dialect" was a distinct language.
All of them had Pelasgic roots. Most of them were not written. In Athens, Phoenicians brought first the alphabet, and begun
assimilating the native Pelasgians creating by this mixture the "Greeks". The other Pelasgians, fell one by one under their influence.
The only ones resisting were the Dorians, Epirotes and Illyrians. Our forefathers.

Then in Ottoman times 0.5 millions (in fact were more than 3 millions of them) were not just "Muslims".
They were Albanian Muslims.They shared everything but faith in common with the other native "Greeks". Language, blood, origin.
They are the reason why today in Turkey there are more than 4 million people of Albanian descent.
Those muslim Albanians were replaced by the Christian turks, people who today make the majority in Greece,
outnumbering the original, native Greeks - the Arvanites.

In 1922 the population of Greece was about 5 to 5.5 millions, after the war about 1.3 million came from Turkey
and about 0.5 million muslim went to Turkey from Greece. The ancient Greeks didn't almost anything like we do today,
but even then every region has it's own dialect, that is the reason why after Alexander conquered Asia
they had to create some much grammar stresses, so the non-Greeks could read and pronounce the scripts correctly.
In Homeric times, Albania didnt exist. In VIII b.c. the Pelasgian language writen by Homer,
wasn't completely corrupted to become what became. It preserved old forms which today survive in modern Albanian
and modern Greek languages. This implies that both nations started from a common point for becoming alien to each other later.
This makes our languages to appear different and alien. But in fact, they are the close dialects.
Only that we, pronounce it correctly but we use latin letters. You, use the original letters, but you pronounce it wrong.
Because, most of you are not descendants of those people who spoke that language.
You are descendant of people who came from elsewhere and learned the language of Homer as a foreign language.

Homer says that the ancient sheeps of Zeus bleated by doing "βή-βή".
This suggests that the "ή" was not pronounced as "i" from Ancient Greeks. If so, the sheeps in Ancient times
would bleat "vi-vi", which is not possible. It was most likely that homeric "ή" is an "e", or like we pronounce in Albanian "ë".
This makes "Ελένη" to be pronounced "Elenë". Exactly like we pronounce it.
And not only Ελένη. But also πληγή, Αθήνα, etc etc etc.
The others continued their path mixing with other nations. The mixture Pelasgians-with this new nation called
"Greeks" created the Epirotes.The mix Pelasgians-Celts produced Illyrians, the mix Pelasgians+Scythians produced Thracians.
And later, the mixture Epirotes-Illyrians produced Albanians. The mixture Thracians-Illyrians produced the Macedonian
(which later mixed with Greeks), the mixture Thracians-Scythians produced Dacians, etc etc etc.
Basically, Albanians (and modern Greeks) are both descendants of Pelasgians.
Pelasgians were the nation populating the Balkans until some Phoenicians colonized the Pelasgians
of Mykonos and Athens, bringing their alphabet, culture and knowledge.
The people who were created by the Pelasgian-Phoenician mixture, was called "Greek".

So Arvanites are basically those people in the margins of what today makes ''Greece'',
far away from the Phoenician influence. I mean, Dorians, Epirotes, even Thessaliotes (
which kept using both terms for their people, "Greek" and "Pelasgian" til'the times of Herodotus).
All these Pelasgian tribes, were assimilated in different ways. Some of them were assimilated with
Phoenicians directly (like Athenians). Some were intermingled with their own ''product''.

Basically, you can get deeper into this, but her surname ''Toska'' identifies the Southern Albanian dialect,
the descendants of the Epirotes, while the Illyrians being the forefathers of Northern Albanians,
the same nation with two predominant dialects ''Toske'' & ''Gheg''.
That would explain why genetically ''Greek'' & Albanian are so close to eachother:

I could indulge into haplogroups & phenotypes, but that is more complicated.

Is it possible that she looked even worse, than how she looks now?
What a pathetic excuse of a person, yet alone an artist. Yes, her real name must be Eralda, which means ''Rare'' or ''Unique'' in Albanian.
There were some magazines discussing her origin here in Albania aswell, but then again, people weren't interested anyways.

Ancient Greeks are the ancestors of Moderns . The arvanites didn't identify themselves as Greeks in the late 20th century, but centuries ago. Kolokotronis is an example. His mother was from Egnatia. (pure greek) while his father was greek or arvanite and wallachic descent. His father actually had nothing more to do with arvanites than with his last name.
According to Kolokotronis autobiography we see he took the name Kolokotronis after an Arvanite saw him and called him like that because of his dark hair and rough charachteristics.
Independence heroes were not albanian. That's a big lie and propaganda if you prefer. First of all we have Kolokotronis, who , according to his autobiography , said into his final trial he wills to die if it is for Greece, trying to convince the judge he did not participate in crime, talking proudly about his greek roots (!).
The we have Laskarina Bouboulina, a very wealthy greek who gave all her money to the greek revolution and we do have even more like Miaoulis , or Diakos... the second one got baked and eaten by the turks. the first one has quoted himself as Greek of the mountains.


The reason of the language similarity is really simple. Both civilizations were pelasgian, and further more Albania had many lawns.

Btw Arvanites have nothing to do with Christian Turks! There is also a huge number of population in turkey mixed with Greeks. We have Greek muslims of the Black Sea (Pontus) , Greek Muslims in Asia Minor....Istanbul and Izmir both used to be Greek cities. But that doesn't mean they got replaced!
There were the Chams, who actually were described as turkish-albanian. But chams had nothing to do with arvanites and in fact they were fighting each other!

And even further Athenians were Ionians. Phoenicians were a tribe that didn't even approach Athenians.

Actually D.N.A tests by Standford and the Pavia University in Italy Greek dna is about the same as in ancient times. More specific only a part of the north populations had mixed with populations like South Slavs and in the very south with arabic/non caucasian.

The studies showed Greeks as a population 99,5% caucasian. even more a study which was done to citizens in North Greece showed about half of them with slavic influence but which was really minor as the hellenic dna was superior. (we're talking about 98,2 % hellenic and the rest slavic!)

The countries with more common dna with greeks are in an order Italians,Spaniards,French,Persian.



http://dienekes.ifreepages.com/blog/arc ... 03_07.html

Even further, about the accent. Actually Ancient Greeks were pronouncing very heavy some letters like "R" and light to normal some like "h" . The opposite from modern albanian language. Your "r" has a weird pronouncation, almost like the french and your "h" sounds like "kh".

Also Homer was Athenian. This means he spoke the attic dialect. Ancient Greeks had different dialects with different pronouncations.

[J.a.d.o.r.e]

Btw Yes her name is Eralda and I have no Idea. The good thing is that she has some good hits.

Anyways as you see a lot of Traditions that are still living in Greece are preserved from antiquity.

Even more there are large similarities of modern and ancient greeks both in culture and charachteristics.







[youtube]598Is9-o21o&lc[/youtube]





A beautiful tradition that is still preserved in Crete throughout antiquity is that of the final goodbye with respect to someone who died , from Crete.
You can see it was a tradition that was done even in El Greco's time.



Also, I don't know a lot of countries who preserved so much their basic values and traditions that they keep them up. The Greek group Daemonia Nymphe is one of the most favorite of the world that plays ancient music with original music instruments.



I don't know a lot of countries were you're able to understand your ancient dialects or sign ancient music from that place.

[J.a.d.o.r.e]

What the hell???! Epirus was the most ancient Dorian kingdom and one with the most deep histories! Do you know that the music system (pentatonia) which is used in rock and jazz music came from ancient epirotan music which was kept to the folk epirotan music as well???? Even in Ancient Years it was called the kingdom of Epirus! Alexander's the Great mother, Olympia came from there! (Oh please don't start on an other propaganda, don't tell me she was albanian too because that would cause unstopping laughter!)Btw as I told you before Homer was a speaker of the attic dialect which was spoken in the area of Athens! From area to area the pronounsation changed! Artemis for example in north greece was pronounced as Artamis. No one learned the "Homer" language from eslewhere. Populations that later were approached by Greeks did but centuries later with the Macedonian Dynasty! Btw there was no migration to Greek lands by Non Greeks, the opposite because Alexander wanted forces in those lands. This is why even after his death, Greeks have remained like the Ptolemeus family who took the control of Egypt after Alexander the Great's death.

Or do you want to say to me Albanians were the oldest in Balkans? A large number of Albanians came from Caucasus with Ottoman Empire! In Turkey they call albanians "arvanut" which means "the ones that never returned".

My point is I've never heard ancient illyrian music, "illyrian " alphabet is very similar to the modern and ancient alphabets found in caucasus, and the north albanians show a large similarity to their south slavic neighbhours!.

Before you start on any argument you should search deeper Epirus and Macedonian history. Dorians as I told you had colonies in othe rplaces too like Crete,Asia Minor,Rhodes...
A group in Crete called "Sfakianoi" who are of Dorian descent and only look identical to Epirotans.



Homer in fa

[J.a.d.o.r.e]

I didn't say Modern Greeks aren't descended from the Ancient, I was speaking about the overall tribes - related to the Arvanite case.
But then in for ex. Kolokotronis's case, he was a Greek with an Arvanite ''nickname'' or call it w/e, not an Arvanite then.
And as for Christian ''Turks'', I am aware they have nothing to do with the Arvanites, but were Anatolian Greeks,
that were ''Turkified'' culturally, but are of Caucasian origin, not Mongoloid as the later Turk settlers,
which were appointed in Modern Day Greece, but had a different dialect, that's the connection I was making.
That's why majority of nowadays Caucasian as in white looking Turks are of mixed Greek & Albanian descent.
Chams for examples are Arvanites or Albanian, call it w/e & fought against Greeks, which used the ''Arvanite'' term.
I am quite aware of the Ottoman monstrocities of the time, so that is completely understandable, resulting in feuds for ex.

Regions with a strong traditional presence of Arvanites (Albanians) werefound mainly in a compact area in southeastern Greece,
namely across Attica (especially in Eastern Attica), southern Boeotia, the north-east of the Peloponnese,
the south of the island of Euboea,the north of the island of Andros, and several islands of the Saronic Gulf & Salamis.
In parts of this area they formed a solid majority until about 1900. Within Attica,
parts of the capital Athens and its suburbs were Arvanitic until the late 19th century.
There are also settlements in some other parts of the Peloponnese, and in Phthiotis (Livanates, Malesina, Martino villages).
Like the rest of the Greek population, Arvanites have been emigrating from their villages to the cities and especially to Athens.
This has contributed to the loss of the language in the younger generation, which resulted in ASSIMILATION.
Unlike the ''Arvanites''/Arberesh Albanians in Italy, which genetically & culturally are the same like Albanians in native Albania,
preserving their language & culture for over 6 centuries, after they settled in Italy due to Ottoman invaders.

No, I did not & do not claim Alexander the Great, unlike FYROM-ians for ex., who actually think are of native stock,
irregardless if they're of Slavic origin & thus speaking a Slavic language.
Albanians & Greeks are the oldest natives of the Balkans, which share a distant origin that goes back to the Pelasgians
and then an overall-European origin as in white Caucasians.

The Ottoman-Caucasian theory of the Albanian origin is obsolete, identifying the proto-Albanians with an area of the Caucasus
referred to by classical geographers as "Albania" which roughly corresponds with modern-day Azerbaijan.
This theory supposed that the ancestors of the Albanians migrated westward to the Balkans
in the late classical or early Medieval period. The Caucasian theory was first proposed by Renaissance humanists
who were familiar with the works of classical geographers, and later developed by early 19th century
French consul and writer François Pouqueville, was rendered obsolete in the 19th century when
linguists proved that Albanian is an Indo-European,not Caucasian language.

The haplogroups (origin & migrations) that make up the majority of Albania are E-M35(origin in the Balkan,
the highest percentage of any country of E-V13 at 44%, and 4% other types of E-M35), J2b (origin also in the Balkan 17%),
R1b (Western European, to be exact Atlantic origin, shares similar percentage with Greeks 21%),
I2a2(haplogroup inexistent outside Europe, 8%) R1a (Central European origin, this is a very late one brought by the Slavic migrations
(unlike the others, late Mesolithic Era-early Neolithic, a.k.a stone age) only 4 %). it makes up 98%.
The other 2% has non European origin, appeared after the Slavic migrations,
however is found all over Europe today, and it's North Indian (The Roma ''Gipsy'' minorities).

The only connection between European Albania & Eurasian,Caucasian Albania is the Medieval LATIN term
''ALBA'', which means ''WHITE'', so according to this, we could say that even Scotland, where the Kingdom
of the Picts (based in Forthriu by the 6th century), which at the was also called ''ALBA'', is Southeastern European in origin?
The Scotts and Albanians are much closer to eachother due to a common Caucasian (white) origin,
which has no connection to the previous, not genetically,culturally,linguistically & ect.

The Turkish term ''Arnaut'' is the Greek version of ''Albanian'' in modern English,
not the Persian ''Arnaboud'', which in Persian means ''The ones that never came back'', not Turkish.
Both the term ''Arnaut'' and ''Arnavut'' come from the Greek version "Arvanite", or Slavic "Arbanase",
which in Albanian is ''Arber'', the name of Medieval Albania, that's why Albanian descendants in Italy,
still use the term ''Arbereshe'' & not ''Shqiptar'', which was later introduced & used by Albanians.
There is no connection from the Turkish,originally Greek term ''Arnaut/Arvanite'' and Persian ''Arnaboud''.

I was also talking about language preservances, vowel shifts & ect.,so according to Elizabeth Pyatt,
from the Pennsylvania State University, some people base their answer on which language got written down first.
If you're counting absolute oldest, probably Sumerian or Egyptian wins because they developed a writing system first
(both start appearing in about 3200 BC). If you're counting surviving languages, Chinese is often cited (first written in 1500 BC),
but Greek is a possible tie because it was written in Linear B beginning ca. 1500 BC.

But all of this is irrelevant, because writing is not equal to speaking.

In 3200 BC, there were many, many languages spoken besides Sumerian and Egyptian,
but they weren't fortunate enough to have a writing system. These languages are just as old.
To take one interesting case, the Albanian language (spoken north of Greece) was not written down until
about the 15th century AD, yet Ptolemy mentions the people in the first century BC.
The linguistic and archaeological evidence suggests that Albanians were a distinct people for even longer than that.
So Albanian has probably existed for several millennia, but has only been written down for 500 years.
With a twist of fate, Albanian might be considered very "old" and Greek pretty "new".

The overall tribes in Greece who usually are being called Greek Minorities are mainly these:

Arvanites
Aromanians/Wallachs
Sarakatsans
Pomaks
Greek Muslims.

Aromanians( Wallachs) who actually live in Epirus and Macedonia are descendants of macedonian shepherds. They are indigenous populations of ethnic Hellenic (greek), live in the territory of pindus mountains and north of macedonia region.
A majority of them has ancient greek last names! Like Laios which is referred by Homer and means "Dark skinned" (That's because vlachs are usually shepherds, and they have to face the sun & snow ).

Sarakatsans are the oldest Dorian population , there are even anthropologist who insist they were the first europeans! They speak a greek dialect with ancient characheristics.

Pomaks are of bulgarian descent. Today the Pomaks that live in Greece and who are of a greek-bulgarian stock, are muslims but a tremendous majority of them are fanatic greeks! None the less they don't feel less Greek than an Athenean.

The Greek Muslims are Greeks who took the muslim religion in the Ottoman Empire years.

Arvanites today make less than 1,8% of the total population found in the state of Attica (where we have about 7 million citizens!)

In the folk arvanitic song of the south arvanitic villages "Litse moi Litse" it stands for the Greek "Litsa mori Litsa" (Λίτσα μωρή Λίτσα) (Litsa is a short cut of the greek name Eleutheria, which means freedom.)

Fyromians are big scumms. They are of slavic stock but also in Fyrom we find large minorities of Albanians & Turks. (and of course Bulgars). in FYROM also exist about 200,000 oppressed Greeks whose last names were changed to slavic under the Tito power. There are also Sarakatsans who are denyed their basic rights!



I am not saying albanians came from caucasus! Lol! But a large part of the citizens of today's albania descent from there. Ottomans used to bring paid soldiers from the Caucasus like the Chams! Their left overs stayed and settled in today's North Albania (not south!).

"linguists proved that Albanian is an Indo-European,not Caucasian language."

actually i won't agree with that.

Read this interview of a very famous - half albanian anthropologist , Dr. Kaplan Resuli.

"I discovered that by chance, studying the albanian language, which, all agree,
is of the type SATEM. According to that global division of languages, researching the illyrian language I discovered that it is of the type KENTUM. The most elementary logic was saying to me that one SATEM language can not be a direct descendant, not even a kind of derivative of some KENTUM language, without a change of its substrate. Since the albanian language does not have any changes in its substrate, that means that the Albanians can’t be, under any circumstance, genealogical descendants of the Illyrians. Later I discovered this, as well, in the works of the world renown professors and scholars Paul, Hirt, Vaigand, Tomashek, Georgiev, Puscariu and many others, who with numerous scholarly arguments, linguistic and historical, have proven that the Albanians not only do not have anything in common with the Illyrians, not only that they are not autochthonous at any place in the Balkan, but they are not even autochthonous in the territories of modern day Albania. Vaigand for example has formulated 12 arguments. To all of those I’ve added another five. Unfortunately, these scientists are not being mentioned in (the study) Albanology, nor in Albania, nor aret they mentioned in Yugoslavia, or in Macedonia, because the albanian professors consciously hide the truth about the origins of the Albanians and, instead of it (the truth), to their pupils and students they serve up the lies about their autochthony and illyrian origin.
Via those lies they poison the whole nation. This is not done accidentally, but with the aim to incite the Albanians against the neighbouring nations, thus, hooking them on the “fishing line” of some invented, wide ethnic territories, to use them as cannon fodder for the interests of some criminalised leaders and the international Capital. The primary motive that inspired me to oppose the albanian pseudo science about their illyrian origin was the truth, the love for the truth, my special inclination towards it, but second and equally as important motive was the fact that, watching the
Albanians being breast-fed with chauvinism and racism, are being encouraged to fight their neighbouring peoples (nations), I was hoping that if the truth is explained to them, they will move away from the tales, legends and myths about their autochthony and illyromania, thus ceasing with their inexcusable and baseless hatred towards their neighbours.".

Greek language is the oldest in Balkans. Archaeologists & Linguists have only made to translate the Linear B (Γραμμική Β)

Linear B is a syllabic script that was used for writing Mycenaean Greek, an early form of Greek. It pre-dated the Greek alphabet by several centuries (LH IIB/LH IIA1/early LH IIIA2, 15th century BC) and seems to have died out with the fall of Mycenaean civilization. Most clay tablets inscribed in Linear B were found in Knossos, Cydonia,Pylos, Thebes and Mycenae. The succeeding period, known as the Greek Dark Ages, provides no evidence of the use of writing.
The script appears related to Linear A, an undeciphered earlier script used for writing the Minoan language, and the later Cypriot syllabary, which recorded Greek. Linear B consists of around 87 syllabic signs and a large repertory of ideographic signs. These ideograms or "signifying" signs stand for objects or commodities, but do not have phonetic value and are never used as word signs in writing a sentence.
The application of Linear B seems to have been confined to administrative contexts. In all the thousands of clay tablets, a relatively small number of different "hands" have been detected: 45 in Pylos (west coast of the Peloponnese, in southern Greece) and 66 in Knossos (Crete). From this fact it could be thought that the script was used only by a guild of professional scribes who served the central palaces. Once the palaces were destroyed, the script disappeared.

Linear A, however which is way older and dates way before the Myceanean civilization , perhaps even older than Cycladic civilization who also is older than Mycenean civilization.

Linear A is one of two scripts used in ancient Crete before Mycenaean Greek Linear B. Cretan hieroglyphs is the second script. In Minoan times, before the Mycenaean Greek dominion, Linear A was the official script for the palaces and religious activities, and hieroglyphs were mainly used on seals. These three scripts were discovered and named by Arthur Evans. In 1952, Michael Ventris discovered that Linear B is the early form of Greek that is now known as Mycenaean. He and others used this information to achieve a significant and well accepted decipherment of Linear B, although many points remain to be clarified. A failure to discover the language of Linear A has prevented progress in the decipherment of Linear B.
Though the two scripts – Linear A and B – share some of the same symbols, using the syllables associated with Linear B in Linear A writings produces words that are unrelated to any known language. This language has been dubbed Minoan and corresponds to a period in Cretan history prior to a series of invasions by Mycenaean Greeks around 1450 BC.
Linear A seems to have been used as a complete syllabary around 1900–1800 BC, although several signs appear earlier as mason marks. It is possible that the Trojan Linear A scripts that were discovered by Heinrich Schliemann and one inscription from central Crete, as well as a few similar potters' marks from Lahun, Egypt (12th dynasty), come from an earlier period, ca. 2100–1900 BC, which coincides with the construction of the first palaces.


Cycladic civilization took place at the Early Bronze Age in the Cyclades islands in Greece in the Aegean sea. it lasted for 1000 years (from 3000 BC to 2000 BC)

The culture of mainland Greece contemporary with Cycladic culture is termed Helladic. Colin Renfrew considers this population Proto-Indo-European, while J. P. Mallory considers it rather pre-Indoeuropean.


Btw Expansion of E-V13 explained in which I postulated that E-V13 in Europe is attributed largely to Greek colonization.

The claim that high frequency ofhaplogroup J2a-Page55 (formerly DYS413≤ 18) in Smyrna is characteristic of non Greek Anatolia , is based entirely on the authors' limited Balkan Greek samples. An inspection of more Greek samples shows that DYS413 less or equal to 18 occurs at higher frequencies both in Crete, but also several mainland sites (Serrai, Larisa, Patrai) spanning the entire country. Hence, Dienekes believes that the claim that J2a-Page55 distinguishes Greeks from non-Greeks is spurious.

Don't forget btw that Western Mediterranean like Corsica,Marseilles,Sicily, was all colonized by Greeks!

Background
The process of Greek colonization of the Central and Western Mediterranean during the Archaic and Classical Eras has been understudied from the perspective of population genetics. To investigate the Y chromosomal demography of Greek colonization in the Western Mediterranean, Y-chromosome data consisting of 29 YSNPs and 37 YSTRs were compared from 51 subjects from Provence, 56 subjects from Smyrna and 31 subjects whose paternal ancestry derives from Asia Minor Phokaia, the ancestral embarkation port to the 6th century BCE Greek colonies of Massalia (Marseilles) and Alalie (Aleria, Corsica).

Results
19% of the Phokaian and 12% of the Smyrnian representatives were derived for haplogroup E-V13, characteristic of the Greek and Balkan mainland, while 4% of the Provencal, 4.6% of West Corsican and 1.6% of East Corsican samples were derived for E-V13. An admixture analysis estimated that 17% of the Y-chromosomes of Provence may be attributed to Greek colonization. Using putative Neolithic Anatolian lineages: J2a-dys445=6, G2a-M406 and J2a1b1-M92 the data predict a 0% Neolithic contribution to Provence from Anatolia. Estimates of colonial Greek vs. indigenous Celto-Ligurian demography predict a maximum of a 10% Greek contribution, suggesting a Greek male elite-dominant input into the Iron Age Provence population.

Conclusions
Given the origin of viniculture in Provence is ascribed to Massalia, these results suggest that E-V13 may trace the demographic and socio-cultural impact of Greek colonization in Mediterranean Europe, a contribution that appears to be considerably larger than that of a Neolithic pioneer colonization.

Claims and theories that have already gone reconstructed...

. Crete was influenced by the Phoenicians

This totally unsupported claim is necessary for the authors' thesis, since Crete has the world maximum of haplogroup J2. There is no doubt that Phoenicians traded with Cretans, just as Cretans traded with Phoenicians. But, that is no excuse to think of Crete as an area of Phoenician influence.

The population of Phoenicia and its "periphery" btw ,is implicitly assumed to be free of Greek influence. That is a bizarre contention, given that Greek was spoken in "Phoenicia" long after the Phoenician language became extinct.

Btw our fellow mediterranean neighbhours, Lebanese and the most north africans who are compared with Greeks or Italian are NOT descentands of Phoenicians!

This central assumption has no actual support, except for a vague geographical congruence. Modern Lebanese are a hybrid people, divided into Christians and Muslims. Both are Arabs, with Muslims being more influenced by the original Arabians, and Christians more influenced by the pre-Arab (Greco-Syrian) and post-Arab (West European) migrations. Perhaps, there is a trace of Phoenician genes in them, but this is really not a self-evident claim.


Btw take a look at this


Harlotype groups - Phoenician & Greek colonization.

Not only are haplotype groups not clades (they do not designate common ancestry), but 7-marker haplotypes don't even designate anything that can be remotely tied to the time period in question, given the huge confidence intervals associated with even larger numbers of markers. Feel free to plug these haplotypes to yhrd or ysearch to find plenty of long-lost "Phoenicians" all over the planet.

[PORTAKAL]

Or do you want to say to me Albanians were the oldest in Balkans? A large number of Albanians came from Caucasus with Ottoman Empire! In Turkey they call albanians "arvanut" which means "the ones that never returned".

Don't know about the first thing but I'm pretty sure, that Arnavut actually derived from "Arvanite". 2nd thing is, we have a huge population of Albanians in Turkey, but they are muslim, so they're not Arvanites.

[J.a.d.o.r.e]

Or do you want to say to me Albanians were the oldest in Balkans? A large number of Albanians came from Caucasus with Ottoman Empire! In Turkey they call albanians "arvanut" which means "the ones that never returned".

Don't know about the first thing but I'm pretty sure, that Arnavut actually derived from "Arvanite". 2nd thing is, we have a huge population of Albanians in Turkey, but they are muslim, so they're not Arvanites.

What

I didn't say Albanians in Turkey are Arvanites! LOL!

I said the etymology of the word and how Turks used to call Albanians!

The Arvanites took the etymology there as they descented from North Epirus, Turks also called Arvanites like that because they also never returned "home".

[Magdalena Christo]

Also forgot to add an other very beautiful Greek model , Evi Toska.

Evi Toska = 100% Ethnic Albanian living in Greece, she ain't Greek what's o ever (at least not ethnically) ... sorry. She's not even Arvanite, because Arvanites are Albanians that migrated to southern Greece during the Medieval era... she's fully Albanian with first and last name (so her parents are perhaps either from Çamëria - Southern Epirus which is Albanian populated and has always been so, but it was cut out of Albania) or they're Albanians that migrated to Greece and she was born to Albanian parents in Greece, but I suppose most likely she's from Çamëria based on her Albanian name. They gave her an Albanian name - Evi or Evis is a very common name amongst Albanian girls, and the last name Toska is 100% Albanian. Greeks are always trying to get Albanians to be Greeks and they always put claims on everything Albanian... LOL!!

Here's one of the most popular Albanian singers Artiola Toska (just to show you that it's an Albanian surname.)

This is another Albanian Evi, Evis Xheneti (wife of guitarist of the band Korn):

[J.a.d.o.r.e]

Also forgot to add an other very beautiful Greek model , Evi Toska.

Evi Toska = 100% Ethnic Albanian living in Greece, she ain't Greek what's o ever (at least not ethnically) ... sorry. She's not even Arvanite, because Arvanites are Albanians that migrated to southern Greece during the Medieval era... she's fully Albanian with first and last name (so her parents are perhaps either from Çamëria - Southern Epirus which is Albanian populated and has always been so, but it was cut out of Albania) or they're Albanians that migrated to Greece and she was born to Albanian parents in Greece, but I suppose most likely she's from Çamëria based on her Albanian name. They gave her an Albanian name - Evi or Evis is a very common name amongst Albanian girls, and the last name Toska is 100% Albanian. Greeks are always trying to get Albanians to be Greeks and they always put claims on everything Albanian... LOL!!

Here's one of the most popular Albanian singers Artiola Toska (just to show you that it's an Albanian surname.)

This is another Albanian Evi, Evis Xheneti (wife of guitarist of the band Korn):

Evi / Eva is a name that is frequent and very usual in Greece in Greece and her father is from SOUTH Epirus while her mother is from Thessaloniki!

There are also other greek surnames like that.

Marios Lekkas for example who is an 100% Greek from the island of Aegina!

She has given several interviews and even more about the crisis,saying about the vacation on her village (

Further more her father's name is Manolis while her mother's name is Areti!

Also you forget about the large greek minority in South Albania and definitely in chameria!

"The Greeks of Albania are ethnic Greeks who live in or originate from areas within modern Albania. They are mostly concentrated in the south of the country, in the areas of the northern part of the historical region of Epirus, in parts of Vlorë County,[4] Gjirokastër, Korçë[5] and Berat County.[6] The area is also known as Northern Epirus. Consequently, the Greeks hailing specifically from South Albania/Northern Epirus are widely known as Northern Epirotes (Greek: Βορειοηπειρώτες Vorioipirotes, Albanian: Vorioepirot). The Greeks who live in the 'minority zones' of Albania are officially recognized by the Albanian government as the Greek minority in Albania (Greek: Ελληνική Μειονότητα στην Αλβανία, Elliniki Mionotita stin Alvania, Albanian: Minoriteti Grek në Shqipëri).[7][8]
In 1913, after the end of five centuries of Ottoman rule, the area was included under the sovereignty of the newly founded Albanian state. The following year, Greeks revolted and declared their independence, and with the following Protocol of Corfu the area was recognized as an autonomous region under nominal Albanian sovereignty, however, this was never implemented.
In modern times, the Greek population has suffered from the prohibition of the Greek language if spoken outside the recognized so-called 'minority zones' (which have remained after the communist era) and even limitations on the official use of its language within those zones.[9] According to Greek minority leaders, the existence of Greek communities outside the 'minority zones' is even outright denied.[10] Many formerly Greek place-names have been officially changed to Albanian ones.[11] Greeks from the 'minority zones' were also frequently forcibly moved to other parts of the country since they were seen as possible sources of dissent and ethnic tension. During communist rule many Greek members of Albanian political parties were forced to cut off their ties with the Orthodox Church.[9] In more recent times, the numbers of the minority have dwindled."

L O L!

Her village's name is Mystras btw!

There are also other last names of greek people who descent either from Epirus,Central Greece or have Arvanite descendants (or are Greeks from South Albania!)

Like Gkeka / Gkekas, Liosi(s),Gouma(s),Lotsa(s),Bouzi(s),Tatsi(s),Gropa(s),Grepi(s),Lepouri(s),Leza(s),Liakra(s),Liaska(s),Liara(s),Kagka(s),Gritsa(s),Kriekouki(s) and like 1 million more!

http://greeksurnames.blogspot.com/2009/ ... st_24.html


Btw there is also an other 100% Greek with the last name Toska, Tina Toska who is a known show biz lady!

(Tina's the one on the left)

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This Greekgirl's name is Chrysoula Gkeka


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Do a small research on facebook...you will find 100,000 ++ greek people with the last name toska or toskas.

And all these girls names are Eva or Evi and are all Greek!

Eva Antonopoulou


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Eva Kaili


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Eva Theotokatou


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Evi Fragkaki


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Evi Daeli


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Evi Adam


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Eva Milli


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Τhis small company are all Greeks too and they are of arvanitic descent, their surnames from left to right are TOSKAS , LAZARI , DREKA


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[J.a.d.o.r.e]

FYROM is a new ''identity'' invented in the Balkans, which tried to force Albanian, Bulgarian & Greek minorities,
to shape a new so-called ''Macedonian identity'', irregardless if the main culture is entirely Bulgarian in origin.
They have tried to ''Slavicize'' all the populations by changing their ethnic surnames into ''Fyromian'',
which I have witnessed with my own eyes, for ex. the winner of ''German Idol'' 2010, Edita Abdieski,
who is an ethnic Albanian with a slavicized surname from her grandfather Abdiu, while the original family
name was Zahini. The people have always been conscious about their origin & thus haven't mixed,
irregardless of the strong propaganda, which might conclude to FYROM falling apart & ethnic parts
being reunited with their ''mother countries'', for ex. Westerm FYROM with an Albanian majority
gets united with Albania, but once again that is politics & the outcome will be seen in the future.

Chams of ''Caucasian Albanian'' origin? Then why isn't there any genetic evidence or whatsoever record about
any migration into Albania? The ''Chams'' are as Albanians as other Albanians.
They were not brough with the Ottoman Empire, that's unproven bullshit, but were incorporated in the Ottoman mercenaries.

So it's Kaplan Resuli's word against numerous not only qualified Albanian but worldwide linguists & genetics?
He's known for basing his theories on bribery, so no wonder none of his work is taken serious not only in the Albanian
but worldwide scale of linguists/genetics & ect., basically he's a flop.

The ''Centum-Satem'' nature of Illyrian & thus Albanian is still debated, also adding the fact, that for ex.
the Albanian word for 100 is Centum, as in alb. ''qind'', ita. ''cento'' & ect.
Our earliest mentioning is in the 200 Anno Domini - 4 centuries before the arrival of the Serbs for ex.
They are mentioned as (Latin) Albanoi, which is thought to mean 'white' - ironically, the Illyrian name for the tribe was parthini,
and the first part -parth resembles our modern word -bardh, meaning precisely white, whereas the suffix -ini resembles our suffix -inj,
defining the word as smth plural, i.e. Parthians, Parthinj.
Nevertheless, the number of researchers still today refusing to take into consideration the many arguments
supplied by different academic disciplines has shrunk, or, more accurately, absolutely the only researchers
who deny the theory of Albanian autochthony are Serbian/Russian (Again politics interferes).

There are numerous historical quotes proving our autochthony in the lands we inhabit today, like in the II Century BC,
the geographer and astronomer from Alexandria, Ptolemy drafted a map of remarkable significance for the history of Illyria,
which shows the city of Albanopolis (located south of Durrës),from which the Albanians were later on to be identified by the world.
The mention of Albanians in the region corresponding to modern Albania is as the Arbanites of Arbanon in Anna Commenas
account of the troubles in that region caused in the reign of her father Alexius I Comneus (1081- 1110) by the Normans.
(The Alexiad The Alexiad is a book written around the year 1148 by the Byzantine historian Anna Comnena,
the daughter of Emperor Alexius I. She describe the political and military history Byzantine Empire during the reign o
of her father (1081-1110) , making it one of the most important sources of information on the Byzantines of the Middle Ages.
In ‘History’ written in 1079-1080, Byzantine historian Michael Attaliates was first to refer to the "Albanoi" as having taken part
in a revolt against Constantinople in 1043 and to the Arbanitai as subjects of the duke of Dyrrachium.
1285 in Dubrovnik (Ragusa) where a sizeable Albanian community had existed for some time.
In the investigation of a robbery in the house of Petro del Volcio of Belena (now Prati), a certain Matthew,
son of Mark of Mançe, who appears to have been witness to the crime, states:
"Audivi unam vocem clamantem in monte in lingua albanesca" (I heard a voice crying in the mountains in the Albanian language).
I could post other numerous historical quotes, researched & verified by worldwide historians, but you get the picture.

Going back to our first mentioning is in the 2th century AD, four centuries before the Slavic arrivals in the Balkans.
It's from that Illyrian tribe (the Albanoi) we received our ethnonym. They were mentioned by the Greek geographer
Ptolemy Claudius of Alexandria, in his work Geographia, as situated near the modern capital Tirana;
Our own medieval term for ourselves wasn't Albanian with the letter 'l', but Arberesh or Arberor or Arban, with 'r',
from whence the Slav term 'Arbanas' and Greek term 'Arvanites' came from, when they referred to us.
This name stems also from the Illyrian era, with the original Quote: ''In the II Century BC, in the History of the World,
written by Polybius, there is mention of a city named Arbon in present day central Albania.
The people who lived there were called Arbanios and Arbanitai.''

Also concluding from the haplogroups & overall studies, which proved Albania's homogeneous identity,
I'll also add some other studies, starting with ''"HLA Class I Polymorphism in the Albanian Population"
Z. Grubi}1, V. Kerhin-Brklja~i}1, E. ^e~uk-Jeli~i}1, S. Kuci2 and A. Ka{telan1 1 National Referral Organ Transplantation
and Tissue Typing Center, University Hospital Center Zagreb, Zagreb, Croatia 2 Faculty of Medicine Prishtina, Prishtina, Kosovo;
Unbiased Croatian & Albanian collaboration, then continuing to another study; "High-Resolution Phylogenetic Analysis
of Southeastern Europe Traces Major Episodes of Paternal Gene Flow Among Slavic Populations"when:"Almost 93% of SEE E3b1
chromosomes are classified into ALPHA cluster. In Europe, the highest E3b1a variance is among Apulians & Greeks
and the highest frequency of the cluster is among Albanians and Greeks (table 1)."
If you make a total % of Albanians of Albania and Albanians of Kosovo all Albanians have the max Erb1-a freq.
After them are the Aromanians (latinized balkan substract), continuing with the Greeks & Apulians.
Cruciani concluded that the distribution of the E3b1-alpha cluster in Europe indicates a Neolithic or post-Neolithic
expansion out of the Balkans into Europe that spread as far west as the Iberian peninsula, and southeast to Turkey.
STR diversity analysis gives an estimate of about 8 thousand years ago for that expansion
Later Semino concluded: ''It's interesting to note that another recent study concluded that a J sub-group, J2e1 (J-M102),
also expanded into Europe from the Balkans during the Neolithic period. Most likely due to genetic drift, Kosovo Albanians
harbor a J2e frequency peak whereas variance maximum declines from the Southeastern edge of the studied region.
The footprint of J2e1 (M102) on the European map indicates some sort of connection between the southern Balkans
and north-central Italy. One possible explanation is that J2e1 may have dispersed into Europe from the Balkans.
Some of the highest frequencies that Semino et al saw for J2e1 were Albania (14.3% of total population),
north-central Italy (9.6%), Greece (6.5%) Croatia etc.,'' He estimated the date of the M102 mutation at about 8000 years ago.

First of all Albanian and Kosovo Albanians are the same people. The max frequencies of J2e are among Albanians,
the some for E3b1. This 2 Haplogroupe are belived to exist there before the Roman arivals.(J2e% + E3b1a% = 16 + 45 = 61%).
All these 2 haplogroup have max. frequency in Albanians and this is a sign of distinction from Slavs for ex.
Then world-renown authot Cavalli-Sforza: ''The Albanians show considerable genetic distances with all the populations;
however, 14 pair of comparisons between the Albanians and the European populations show a high level of identity.
This is a correlation function not the sum of the haplogroups, with which we conclude that Albanians & Kosovo Albanians
have one of the strongest DNA identity in Balkans, with a correlation of 14 values.
The “Survey of anthropological features of the Illyrians": The purpose of this paper is to bring to evidence the physical traits
of the ancient inhabitants of Albania, the Illyrians, through an anthropological study of 93 human skeletons of different periods.
Based on the available typological data the author comes to the conclusion that the Illyrians of the Albanian territory constituted an
Adriatic-Mediterranean population with Nordic and Alpine minorities.
The results of this study throw light on certain historical phenomena, which are linked with the origin and formation of the Illyrians
and thus, the direct descendance with the Albanians.

Here you've got the links to the previous mentioned studies;
"HLA Class I Polymorphism in the Albanian Population":
http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache...n&ct=clnk&cd=1 & http://hrcak.srce.hr/file/15462 in PDF.
"High-Resolution Phylogenetic Analysis of Southeastern Europe Traces Major Episodes
of Paternal Gene Flow Among Slavic Populations'': http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/re...22/10/1964.pdf
''Maternal and paternal lineages in Albania and the genetic structure of Indo-European populations'':
http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v... ... a.pd''
Survey of anthropological features of the Illyrians": http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3...ubmed_RVDocSum

The previous study was done in 6 Universities, including:
1-Charite - Universitaetsmedizin Berlin, Medizinische Bibliothek, Germany
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/projects...de=tu&JrId=680
2-Universitaets- und Landesbibliothek Duesseldorf, Germany
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/projects...de=tu&JrId=680
3-Biblioteche Universitarie e dell' Area di Bologna , Italy
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/projects...de=tu&JrId=680
4-Harvard University Library, USA
http://sfx.hul.harvard.edu/sfx_local..._char_set=utf8
5- University of Calgary Library, Canada
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/projects...de=tu&JrId=680
6- University of Vermont Dana Medical Library ne SHBA
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/projects...de=tu&JrId=680

There is more than enough VERIFIED anthropological material going on, proving our descendance,
I would post even more & back them up with links, but I think you get the picture by now.

And as PORTAKAL already confirmed the etymology of the word ''Arnavut'' which is derived from ''Arnavite'',
something I backed up in my previous post aswell, you should hold on to the Turkish-Greek etymology, not Persian!

I know the situtation of my people nowadays, ALBANIANS inhabit Albania, Western Macedonia, Kosovo, Southern Montenegro
and Southern Italy, precisely Calabria, where a Arbereshe (ALBANIAN) community is still flourishing & speaking Albanian,
you've also got a minority in Ukraine, but they're not as active as the previous & thus, assimilated like the ones in Greece and Turkey.
I didn't claim or claim modern-day ''Arvanites'', they're Greeks of partial-distant Albanian origin,
how can I consider them Albanian nowadays, if they're mixed & don't even speak Albanian?
Modern day Albanians don't regard ''Arvanites'' & ''Arnauts'' in Turkey as our brethren, they're assimilated, what use are they to us?

I was just interested about Evi Toska's case, since her surname is relatively new & used nowadays in Southern Albania,
that was the only connection I thought I'd make, but you clarified her situtation & that's all I needed!

Chams in the greek history are referred to as "turkish-albanian" , "turkish upbringingss" . A lot of Chams were brought in the same way the Janissaries were used!

The North Albanians (not the south or central) have common harlogroups with south slavic and caucasoid populations.

Further more...

"We can look for "Geg" in the western Caucasus in modern Georgia...
The word "gege" in the Georgian language means absolutely nothing, however, "gegali" means "goat".
In albanian a goat is called "lia" (dhia), so it si totaly possible that this may originate from later part of the word "gega-LI" From "gegali" "gegeria" could have been derived, since according to Neo-Greek phonetics, the "l" became "r".
Thus Gegegria would mean "Goat herders" and "Geg" would be the shortneded form or deminutive.

This name is appropriate for the main occupation of the population in these regions where there were plenty of goats from which milk and meat were the main source.
Wealth was counted in goats.

The Caucasian origins of the Gegs can be traced to ancient Georgia in the Caucasus where there once existed a land in antiquity called GOGARI, later changed to GOGARENA.
....when the Armenian people lost its statehood and lands, to make it possible to join foreign lands, the Albanian kingdom, i. e. the lands of historical Georgia (Gogarena).
Stephanus, an ancient author, expressly says, that the inhabited district on the south side was called Gogarena. "


identical place-names between Albania and Caucasus:
Albo-Arnauti -Caucasus- Arnauti
Albo-Bushati - Caucasus-Bushati (also the name of an Albanian tribe)
Albo-Baboti - Caucasus-Baboti
Albo-Baka -Caucasus-Bako
Albo-Ballagati - Caucasus-Balagati
Albo-Ballaj,Balli - Caucasus- Bali
Albo-Bashkimi - Caucasus-Bashkoi
Albo-Bathore- Caucasus- Batharia
Albo-Bater- Caucasus- Bataris
Albo-Geg - Caucasus-Gegi, Gegeni, Geguti (Term used by Albanians in their language to denote their brethre north of the Shkumbi R.)
Albo-Demir Kapia - Caucasus-Demir Kapia (Turkish term: "iron gates"; term by which Turks refered to the Caspian Sea or arch: Albanian Sea)
Albo-Kish, Kisha... - Caucasus-Kish (Eight different toponyms in Albania begin with "kish")
Albo-Kurata,Kuratem,Kurateni(villages)-Caucasus-Kura (river) (Nine different toponyms in Albania begin with "Kura")
Albo-Luginasi - Caucasus-Lugini
Albo-Rusani - Caucasus-Rusian
Albo-Sheshani, Shoshani, Shashani - Caucasus-Shashani
Albo-Sheshaj, Sheshi - Caucasus-Sheshleti
Albo-Skalla - Caucasus-Skaleri
Albo-Shiptari Shipyaki, Shkhepa, - Caucasus-Shkepi
Albo-Shkoder - Caucasus-Shkeder, Shked, Shkoda
Albo-Shekulli - Caucasus-Shekouli
Albo-Skuraj - Caucasus-Skuria

Scutari=Üsküdar
Shqip toponim Egrisse=Egrisse,the name of a large tribe from Gruzia (Colchis)
Shqip toponim Canj=Canji,the name of a large tribe from Caucasus

Shkaraua (tribe)

Fact:
Gegs
Gegant
Gegar
Gege
Gegechel'
Gege chkari 42N 42E 181 593
Gege chkori 42N 42E 181 593
Gegechol'
Gegedzhyai
Gegedzhyay
Gegele 40N 48E 195 639
Gege-li...dzeyebi 41N 42E 889 2916
Gegeli 40N 48E 195 639
Gegem 41N 46E 457 1499
Gegeran 38N 48E 259 849
Geghadir
Geguti 42N 42E 90 295
Gogasheni 41N 43E 1752 5748
Gogeti 42N 43E 754 2473
Gogiant-Kari 42N 44E 1764 5787
Goginauri 41N 42E 1353 4438
Gogiyeti 41N 42E 275 902
Gognauri 42N 44E 1358 4455
Gogni 42N 43E 839 2752


Shqip
Sipiyad 38N 48E 150 492
Sipiya 38N 48E 150 492
Siptakshen 40N 45E 1349 4425
Shipyaki-in the neighbouring Republic of Georgia
* "S" pronounces: "SH";
http://www.fallingrain.com/world/GG/0/Shipyaki.html



814 A.D

Harlogroup I2a1 is typical of South Slavs.
-Serbians: I2A 38 % Same as:
-Skopians: I2A 39 %
For the Hellenes:
I2A 11 % (which is common harlotype in most nations)
So, the most predominant Harlogroup for mediterannean people like Greeks is E1B1B % R1B.
Hellenes: E1B1B 32 % R1B 31 %


Btw, There were certain Arvanites in ATTICA in the 1800s, but they were a minority and they were certainly not "Albanians".

Anyways,Albanians are way too high in the IE phylogeny to be fully Illyrian, if we accept the usual interpretation of Illyrian culture being related to Celtic and Italic and in general Western IE via Hallstatt/CUs. IMO Albanian language is older than that and should have arrived to the area earlier and/or from another branch. (!!)

The late Chalcolithic/Early Bronze of the Balcans is complex enough (lots of different resulting cultures after the Kurgan invasions) to allow for that but there's no simple explanation I can think of. It would mean in any case that some Illyrians probably spoke proto-Albanian, regardless of whether this proto-Albanian is identical to other Illyrian languages/dialects or almost totally unrelated.

Alternatively it might be, as some have suggested a branch of Traco-Dacian arrived only in the Middle Ages. However it's extremely difficult to explain why the people would accept such language when the dominant ones were Latin, Greek and Slavic by then. Also the classical explanation of Armenians being Phrygian colonists and hence related to Thracians would clash with that Thracian origin hypothesis.

Also from the mouth of Dienekes about Albanians :

"First of all, we don't know where "they" were in the Neolithic, and we certainly don't know that the present-day Albanians were in present-day Albania during the Illyrian period.

Second, if their language turned out to be of Illyrian origin (doubtful), it would be a reasonable conclusion that they indeed ADOPTED the language, as the Illyrians were reckoned to be one of the northern nations, which doesn't harmonize very well with the predominantly Southern gene pool of present-day Albanians.".

I am the kind of person that believes that Albanians have mixed not in terms of race but tribes and racial groups. There are large similarieties also between Albanians and Georgians and other caucasian populations in charachteristics and facial symmetry.

However, Georgians have the G2a which is not found in Albania as a whole, but only in the North!

Illyrians were reckoned to be a northern nation in antiquity, and this isn't very compatible with the predominantly southern composition of albanian gene pool.

Some south Albanians btw carry the I2a1 chromosome which is found in slavic populations.

The Albanians first appear in the historical record in Byzantine sources of the late 11th century. At this point, they were already fully Christianized. Very little evidence of pre-Christian Albanian culture survives, although Albanian mythology and folklore are of Paleo-Balkanic origin and almost all of their elements are pagan,[2] in particular showing Greek influence.[3]

Although the Illyrian tribe of the Albanoi and the place Albanopolis could be located near Krujë, nothing proves a relation of this tribe to the Albanians, whose name appears for the first time in the eleventh century in Byzantine sources[61]
According to linguist V. Georgiev, the theory of an Illyrian origin for the Albanians is weakened by a lack of any Albanian names before the 12th century and the relative absence of Greek influence that would surely be present if the Albanians inhabited their homeland continuously since ancient times.[62] According to Georgiev if the Albanians originated near modern-day Albania, the number of Greek loanwords in the Albanian language should be higher.[63]
According to Georgiev, although some Albanian toponyms descend from Illyrian, Illyrian toponyms from antiquity have not changed according to the usual phonetic laws applying to the evolution of Albanian. Furthermore, placenames can be a special case and the Albanian language more generally has not been proven to be of Illyrian stock.[61]
Many linguists have tried to link Albanian with Illyrian, but without clear results.[61][64] Albanian belongs to the satem group within Indo-European language tree, while there is a debate whether Illyrian was centum or satem. On the other hand, Dacian[64] and Thracian[65] seem to belong to satem. Additionally, more recent research suggests that there was a process of satemization by which non-satem languages slowly acquired characteristics, and this characteristic has found parallels in the modern development of many Western European languages. For example, in terms of the pronunciation of the word for one hundred ("centum" kɛntʊm in Latin and "satem" satəm in Avestan, an Ancient Iranian language- hence the names for the isogloss), French could be considered semi-satemized, as the pronunciation of French cent, sɑ̃t, is actually closer to "satem" than "centum".[citation needed][original research?]
There is a lack of clear archaeological evidence for a continuous settlement of an Albanian-speaking population since Illyrian times. For example, while Albanians scholars maintain that the Komani-Kruja burial sites support the Illyrian-Albanian continuity theory, most scholars reject this and consider that the remains indicate a population of Romanized Illyrians who spoke a Romance language.[66][67][68] Recently, some Albanian archeologists have also been moving away from describing the Komani-Kruja culture as a proto-Albanian culture.[69]

Aside from an Illyrian origin, a Dacian or Thracian origin is also hypothesized. There are a number of factors taken as evidence for a Dacian or Thracian origin of Albanians. According to Vladimir Orel, for example, the territory associated with proto-Albanian almost certainly does not correspond with that of modern Albania, i.e. the Illyrian coast, but rather that of Dacia Ripensis and farther north.....he Romanian historian I.I. Russu has originated the theory that Albanians represent a massive migration of the Carpi population pressed by the Slavic migrations. Due to political reasons the book was first published in 1995 and translated in German by Konrad Gündisch.
The German historian Gottfried Schramm (1994) suggests an origin of the Albanians in the Bessoi, a Thracian tribe that was Christianized as early as during the 4th century. Schramm argues that such an early Christianization would explain the otherwise surprising virtual absence of any traces of a pre-Christian pagan religion among the Albanians as they appear in history during the Late Middle Ages.

According to this theory, the Bessoi were deported en masse by the Byzantines at the beginning of the 9th century to central Albania for the purpose of fighting against the Bulgarians. In their new homeland, the ancestors of the Albanians took the geographic name Arbanon as their ethnic name and proceeded to assimilate local populations of Slavs, Greeks, and Romans.

Linguist Eric Hamp on the other hand posits that Albanian is more closely relate to Baltic and Slavic rather than Thracian

ities whose names follow Albanian phonetic laws - such as Shtip (Štip), Shkupi (Skopje) and Niš - lie in the areas, believed, to once inhabited by Thracians, Paionians and Dardani; the later most often considered Illyrians by ancient historians. While there still is no clear picture of where the Illyrian-Thracian border was, Naissus is mostly considered Illyrian territory.[75]
There are some close correspondences between Thracian and Albanian words.[76] However, as with Illyrian, most Dacian and Thracian words and names have not been closely linked with Albanian (v. Hamp). Also, many Dacian and Thracian placenames were made out of joined names (such as Dacian Sucidava or Thracian Bessapara; see List of Dacian cities and List of ancient Thracian cities), while the modern Albanian language does not allow this.[76]
The Bulgarian linguist Vladimir Georgiev posits that that Albanians descend from a Dacian population from Moesia, now the Morava region of eastern Serbia, and that Illyrian toponyms are found in a far smaller area than the traditional area of Illyrian settlement, and that the Albanians originate from the Morava region in Moesia (nowadays eastern Serbia)

According to Georgiev, Latin loanwords into Albanian show East Balkan Latin (proto-Romanian) phonetics, rather than West Balkan (Dalmatian) phonetics. Combined with the fact that the Romanian language contains several hundred words similar only to Albanian, Georgiev proposes the Albanian language formed between the 4th and 6th century in or near modern-day Romania, which was Dacian territory.[63] He suggests that Romanian is a fully Romanised Dacian language, whereas Albanian is only partly so. Albanian and Eastern Romance also share grammatical features (see Balkan language union) and phonological features, such as the common phonemes or the rhotacism of "n".

Apart from the linguistic theory that Albanian is more akin to East Balkan Romance (i.e. Dacian substrate) than West Balkan Romance (i.e. Illyrian/Dalmatian substrate), Georgiev also notes that marine words in Albanian are borrowed from other languages, suggesting that Albanians were not originally a coastal people (as the Illyrians were). According to Georgiev the scarcity of Greek loan words also supports a Dacian theory - if Albanians originated in the region of Illyria there would surely be a heavy Greek influence. Lastly, Georgiev also notes that Illyrian toponyms do not follow Albanian phonetic laws. According to historian John Van Antwerp Fine, "these are serious (non-chauvinistic) arguments that cannot be summarily dismissed."
Hamp, on the other hand, seems to agree with Georgiev in relation to Albania with Dacian but disagrees on the chronological order of events. Hamp argues that Albanians could have arrived from present day Kosovo to their current geographical position sometime in late Roman period. Also, contrary to Georgiev, he indicates there are words that follow Dalmatian phonetic rules in Albanian giving as an example the word drejt 'straight' < d(i)rectus matching Old Dalmatian traita < tract.

V


V


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As you see the albanian descent is a very big deal as there are no historical documents of Albanians before the 15th century.

[Magdalena Christo]

@ the Greek chauvinist, I will not read any of what you have copied and pasted here from wiki (which is not even a reliable source for information as anybody can edit pages on there, and the bs you're putting here has most likely been written by other Greek chauvinists like yourself). Greece has stolen land, history and plenty of sports stars from Albania... now please, cut the crap because I am well aware as to who Greeks are and how mixed your country is... there is a reason your government never recognizes any of its minorities... Albania recognizes its tiny Greek minority in the South which now sadly is growing as Greece's economy has died, whereas Greece has never recognized Albanians as a minority in their country. No wonder though, because in South Epirus Albanians aren't even a minority but rather a majority as it is their land!

I know how you Greeks are, you are chauvinists... to you everything is Greek. Anybody, that moves to your country as long as they get Christened in the Greek Orthodox Church they're instantly considered Greek.

Albanians are the descendants of Illyrians, Epirotes & Ancient Macedonians, they are the true descendants of the Pelasgians and therefor the oldest peoples of the balkans. That's something you'll have to accept or deal with it on your own, because it's the truth!

Evi Toska you mentioned earlier is from Janina, Çamëria (South Epirus) the part of Greece that is with an Albanian majority... therefor she is definitely an ethnic Albanian. + if her parents were Greek they wouldn't have given to her the name Evi (which is quite possibly the most popular name amongst girls in Albania). While the last name Toska is purely Albanian and anybody else that has such a last name residing in Greece, they're definitely of Albanian origins. So shove your bs propaganda up yours because I don't buy any of it as I know your Greek chauvinist games quite well.

[Magdalena Christo]

Here's several other Albanians that Greeks claim as their own, simply because they have or had their careers in Greece:
Mirela Manjani (from Durrës, Albania):

Pirro Dhima "Pyrros Dimas" as Greeks would say haha...weightlifter (from Himara, Albania):

Luan Shabani (from Korçë, Albania) Greeks call him "Leonidas Sabanis":

These are just a few examples of recent Albanian peoples that Greeks try to claim as their own, let alone ancient history.... they claim everything of Albania as their own... hahaha ....

It is obvious Evi is Albanian, just look at her face!!! She looks like she's related to Eralda Hitaj!!!

[J.a.d.o.r.e]

Here's several other Albanians that Greeks claim as their own, simply because they have or had their careers in Greece:
Mirela Manjani (from Durrës, Albania):

Pirro Dhima "Pyrros Dimas" as Greeks would say haha...weightlifter (from Himara, Albania):

Luan Shabani (from Korçë, Albania) Greeks call him "Leonidas Sabanis":

These are just a few examples of recent Albanian peoples that Greeks try to claim as their own, let alone ancient history.... they claim everything of Albania as their own... hahaha ....

It is obvious Evi is Albanian, just look at her face!!! She looks like she's related to Eralda Hitaj!!!

Pyrros Dimas is actually North Epirotan Greek lol He belongs to the Greek Minority of Albania!

Nobody "claims" Mirella Maniani or Leonidas Sabanis to be greeks! They are albanian and everybody knows it!
Just check it on wikipedia!!

Evi is greek liking it or not she's from Mystras a greek village & Thessaloniki...

Here's Evi with her friends!
The only thing she got's similar with that girl you posted is her colors. NOT her charachteristics.


image upload


image hosting adult

[Magdalena Christo]

Evi Toska is Albanian and so is Pirro Dhima! Now deal with it and STFU, Greek chauvinist criminal.

[J.a.d.o.r.e]

There is no such thing as ''Turkish-Albanian'', it's unbelievable how contradictory you are!
Chams are ethnically Albanians, irregardless of religion, but while the Greek minority in Albania had dual-citizenship,
the previous were massacred & their homes looted!
According to the Jannisary system, they TOOK Albanian children & incorporated them into Ottoman mercenaries,
not the other way around, I hope you're aware of that.

What part of the ''CAUCASIAN THEORY IS OBSOLETE'' didn't you get? Stop trolling on Wikipedia & read verified literature,
you're more than welcome to check the surveys & links I provided for you from German, Italian & US Universities,
which you obviously skipped. Those authors, including world-renown names Cavalli-Sforza, Cruciani, Semino & ect.,
against uncredited ones like Georgiev & Resuli. I don't get it, you agreed on the overall-Pelasgian theory
& now all of a sudden you're backing up the ''Caucasian'' one, even if the ''proof'' you've got was written by an online amateur?

No historical documents of Albanians before the 16th century? Did Anna Comnena invent the term ''Arbanites of Arbanon'' then?
It's interesting how the term ''Arbereshe'' perfectly fits the overall historic legacy, the Albanians in Southern Italy
still refer themselves as ''Arbereshe'',so please go read what I posted once again & stop copy-pasting some irrelevant-unproven BS,
it doesn't do you or the Greeks any justice.
There is still unfinished business to be done, we first began with Kosovo & now we're aiming for Chameria, along Lirida & Malsia,
with majority of Albanian immigrants returning to Albania, due to the pathetic excuse of a country you've got,
which reflects on the economy aswell, we're going to set business straight!
Starting with Greek Historians themselves, admiting that ''Chams'' were innocent:


If ''Chams'' are Caucasian, then howcome is the word Çam an evolution of the word "t'chiam", which is the name of an ancient river
passing right through Çameria (The word T'chamis appears on many ancient Roman and even Hellenic maps, indicating that the word
Chameria is older than the word Epirus, and it's used only by Albanians)? The Greek government has been very hostile toward Çams
and the main reason is the fact that they have a very strong Albanian identity. Another reason of the Greek hostilities is the fact
that Greeks inherited a very hostile policy towards them. During the period of time, from 1854 till 1877 the Albanians of Çameria
resisted successfully the attacks from Greek "Andartes".During the WWI and WWII the greek troops attacked Çameria again.
The (provisional) government of Vlora (Albania) responded by sending Albanian military troops to assist the Albanian population,
but the decision of the Ambassadors Conference assigned Çameria to Greece. As a result of this decision by the great powers,
Greeks forces led by the hateful figure of N. Zervas launched attackers that ended up with many innocent Albanian locals killed.
The difference between Çams (Albanians) & ''Arvanites'' is that the previous did not want to assimilate & still have
a very strong Albanian identity, which includes speaking Albanian & not intermarrying non-Albanians.

Other than that, please makeup your mind on whether you'll agree with world-renown literature or Wikipedia,
I hope the decision is obviously quite easy to make, so avoid posting any uncredited theories for future reference.

I don't know who people you mean but I don't mean CHAMERIANS!
I mean the chams who in greek were called Τsamides!
Τsamides were muslim albanians in the area of Thesprotia!


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By 1952 there were less than 127 Tsamides in whole Greece!

For political reasons of Turkey they didn't exchange with the rest christian-muslim population in 1922!

On Tsamides and their extreme actions Italy based its invasion in Greece in 1940!
They were the first to attack along with the nazis christian villages (November 1940) because they had conflicts with christians!
By 1944 and the loss of the war by Italians Tsamides were "ethnicaly cleared", weaped from Greece! (in short the ones that didn't return they were either killed or went to Turkey!)

http://www.tovima.gr/books-ideas/article/?aid=169969

The vast majority of Janissaries were of Greek and Slavic origins!But in general kids were abducted from all over the Balkans!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Greek ... -_1865.JPG

"This was the recruiting of non-Turkish children, notably Balkan Christians; Jews were never subject to devşirme, nor were children from Turkic families. In early days, all Christians were enrolled indiscriminately; later, those from Albania, Greece, Bosnia, Serbia, F.Y.R.O.M and Bulgaria were preferred.[4][5]"

I checked those links btw, perhaps you skipped some from what I wrote you which is based on Theories and researches from North Italian,Greek &French anthropologists & Historians.

[J.a.d.o.r.e]

@ the Greek chauvinist, I will not read any of what you have copied and pasted here from wiki (which is not even a reliable source for information as anybody can edit pages on there, and the bs you're putting here has most likely been written by other Greek chauvinists like yourself). Greece has stolen land, history and plenty of sports stars from Albania... now please, cut the crap because I am well aware as to who Greeks are and how mixed your country is... there is a reason your government never recognizes any of its minorities... Albania recognizes its tiny Greek minority in the South which now sadly is growing as Greece's economy has died, whereas Greece has never recognized Albanians as a minority in their country. No wonder though, because in South Epirus Albanians aren't even a minority but rather a majority as it is their land!

I know how you Greeks are, you are chauvinists... to you everything is Greek. Anybody, that moves to your country as long as they get Christened in the Greek Orthodox Church they're instantly considered Greek.

Albanians are the descendants of Illyrians, Epirotes & Ancient Macedonians, they are the true descendants of the Pelasgians and therefor the oldest peoples of the balkans. That's something you'll have to accept or deal with it on your own, because it's the truth!

Evi Toska you mentioned earlier is from Janina, Çamëria (South Epirus) the part of Greece that is with an Albanian majority... therefor she is definitely an ethnic Albanian. + if her parents were Greek they wouldn't have given to her the name Evi (which is quite possibly the most popular name amongst girls in Albania). While the last name Toska is purely Albanian and anybody else that has such a last name residing in Greece, they're definitely of Albanian origins. So shove your bs propaganda up yours because I don't buy any of it as I know your Greek chauvinist games quite well.

Albanians are descendants of Epirotans,Macedonians????????

Epirus and Macedonia are Ancient Greek Areas! Even the names Macedonia and Epirus have a greek meaning! THE MAJORITY OF IOANNINA ARE GREEKS! IOANNINA WAS A GREEK REGION FROM ANTIQUITY!THE ALBANIAN POPULATION MAKES LESS THAN 4%!!!!Ioannina is a greek region with greek citizens.Do you happen to know any geography at all?
The last names I sent you are arvanitic, of course they will have a meaning in albanian -.- . Most albanians in Greece don't live in Ioannina,Thessaloniki or any place else than Athens!

Btw the name Evi(Eva) which means life and is a pure christian name, is in the number 5 as most popular & famous names in Greece along with the names Maria,Christina,Eleni,Katerina & so on....

And btw Greece is 5000 years old while Albania , (even in the case of being Illyrian ) would be younger.The earliest recorded Illyrian kingdom was that of the Enchele in the 8th century BC !!! Bring me some real arguments...At least Aphroditte brings some and while we're arguing we're not fighting! You got some issues don't you?

And if that was true about church then even the Pakis and the Afghans that become christians would be called Greece. To Greeks your albanian or you're not regardless if you're muslim,christian or atheist.

[Magdalena Christo]

Some Albanian beauties:

Eralda Hitaj:


Evi Toska:

Xhemi Shehu:

Zana Krasniqi:

Valbona Coba:

Just to name a few....

@ the Greek chauvinist - quit stealing from Albania!!!! Enough you have stolen land and history, now I know you don't have beautiful girls like the Albanian girls... but that doesn't give you a right to take what is not yours. Thank you very much!!

[J.a.d.o.r.e]

There is no such thing as ''Turkish-Albanian'', it's unbelievable how contradictory you are!
Chams are ethnically Albanians, irregardless of religion, but while the Greek minority in Albania had dual-citizenship,
the previous were massacred & their homes looted!
According to the Jannisary system, they TOOK Albanian children & incorporated them into Ottoman mercenaries,
not the other way around, I hope you're aware of that.

What part of the ''CAUCASIAN THEORY IS OBSOLETE'' didn't you get? Stop trolling on Wikipedia & read verified literature,
you're more than welcome to check the surveys & links I provided for you from German, Italian & US Universities,
which you obviously skipped. Those authors, including world-renown names Cavalli-Sforza, Cruciani, Semino & ect.,
against uncredited ones like Georgiev & Resuli. I don't get it, you agreed on the overall-Pelasgian theory
& now all of a sudden you're backing up the ''Caucasian'' one, even if the ''proof'' you've got was written by an online amateur?

No historical documents of Albanians before the 16th century? Did Anna Comnena invent the term ''Arbanites of Arbanon'' then?
It's interesting how the term ''Arbereshe'' perfectly fits the overall historic legacy, the Albanians in Southern Italy
still refer themselves as ''Arbereshe'',so please go read what I posted once again & stop copy-pasting some irrelevant-unproven BS,
it doesn't do you or the Greeks any justice.
There is still unfinished business to be done, we first began with Kosovo & now we're aiming for Chameria, along Lirida & Malsia,
with majority of Albanian immigrants returning to Albania, due to the pathetic excuse of a country you've got,
which reflects on the economy aswell, we're going to set business straight!
Starting with Greek Historians themselves, admiting that ''Chams'' were innocent:


If ''Chams'' are Caucasian, then howcome is the word Çam an evolution of the word "t'chiam", which is the name of an ancient river
passing right through Çameria (The word T'chamis appears on many ancient Roman and even Hellenic maps, indicating that the word
Chameria is older than the word Epirus, and it's used only by Albanians)? The Greek government has been very hostile toward Çams
and the main reason is the fact that they have a very strong Albanian identity. Another reason of the Greek hostilities is the fact
that Greeks inherited a very hostile policy towards them. During the period of time, from 1854 till 1877 the Albanians of Çameria
resisted successfully the attacks from Greek "Andartes".During the WWI and WWII the greek troops attacked Çameria again.
The (provisional) government of Vlora (Albania) responded by sending Albanian military troops to assist the Albanian population,
but the decision of the Ambassadors Conference assigned Çameria to Greece. As a result of this decision by the great powers,
Greeks forces led by the hateful figure of N. Zervas launched attackers that ended up with many innocent Albanian locals killed.
The difference between Çams (Albanians) & ''Arvanites'' is that the previous did not want to assimilate & still have
a very strong Albanian identity, which includes speaking Albanian & not intermarrying non-Albanians.

Other than that, please makeup your mind on whether you'll agree with world-renown literature or Wikipedia,
I hope the decision is obviously quite easy to make, so avoid posting any uncredited theories for future reference.

The name of the woman is Anna Komnenou to be exact

The name Arvanoi/Arvanites was GIVEN to them by the Byzantines just because these tribes lived in the Arvanon area.The Byzantine Greeks were font of using ancient names to describe modern nations.Thus Anna Komnene in Alexias used this name for the first time to describe the nomadic clans that lived there.
The real ethnonym of the Albanians,the one that they use themselves in their language,is Skipetari.

Partly correct.. During the Byzantine era the term Albanians is mentioned for the first time.. but not for the population of Arvanon..
In Anna Komnene's Alexiad we see that the 'Albanians' and 'Arvanites' or to be exact, the "inhabitants bordering Arvanon" are desribed as separate people..

In book 6 we read:

as Robert was being worried on all sides by the so-called Albanians and by the natives of Dalmatia sent by Bodinus.


In book 7 we read:

When some small towns bordering on Arbanum fell into Bohemund's hands, their inhabitants, who were intimately acquainted with all the roads round Arbanum, came to him and explained the exact position of Devra and showed him the hidden paths.

So she actually indicates the difference between Albanians and the "natives of Dalmatia" and the "inhabitants of the villages bordering to Arbanon"


Of course there are other sources that indicate the difference.. like, the Byzantine historian Michael Attaliates in his ‘History’ written in 1079-1080, makes reference to the 'Albanoi' having taken part in a revolt against Constantinople in 1043 and to the 'Arbanitai' as subjects of the duke of Dyrrachium.

There is also Maximus Mazaris in his "Journey to Hades" (1415 AD) when describing the population of Peloponessos, describes the Abanians (refered to as Illyrians) and Arvanites as two totally different people.

Manuel Palaiologos in his Letters when discussing the Kladas revolt (Kladas and those that revolted were considered Arvanites) mentions that the "Illyrians" aka Albanians did not revolt..

Simon Fitzsimons in his ‘Itinerary’ written 1322 during his journey to Jerusalem mentions that the south of the region now known as Albania was populated by a mixture of non-Albanian people (among them the Hellines[ could he be talking about Arvanites?] that wore distinctive white hats) and that the region had only then received an Albanian influx by invading Albanians fleeing from Slavic domination in the region of Rascia ..





so whats your own opinion, is it by any chance that they showed up from Caucasus (the farer the better, isnt that right?) , a theory made up just to piss off the Albanians?

Made up just to piss Albanians off :wacko: Under no condition is it made up..
Here's a quoted text from Robert Elsie's site.. Note that Robert Elsie is considered THE authority on Albanian history..

1038, 1042, 1078
Michael Attaleiates:
The First Byzantine References

Michael Attaleiates was a Byzantine lawyer and historian who rose to high office under the emperors Romanus IV (r. 1067-1071) and Michael VII (r. 1071-1078). His 'History', covering the years 1034-1079, is a largely eyewitnessed account of political and military events in the Byzantine Empire. It was during this period that the Byzantine Greeks first took note of the Albanians as a people.

When the Emperor Michael (1), who passed away in piety and whose home is known to have been the province of Paphlagonia, took up the sceptre of the Byzantine Empire, the Agarene (2) people in Sicily in the West were defeated by Byzantine naval and land forces.
And had not the well-known George Maniakes, who had been entrusted with the general command, been eliminated on the slanderous accusation that he was hungry for power, and had not the military command of the war been transferred to others, that large and renowned island, blessed with large cities knowing no lack of precious goods, would still be under Byzantine control. Now, however, jealousy has destroyed not only the man and his endeavours, but also that enormous undertaking (3). For when subsequent commanders made base and shameful plans and decisions, not only was the island lost to Byzantium, but also the greater part of the army. Unfortunately, the people who had once been our allies and who possessed the same rights as citizens and the same religion, i.e. the Albanians and the Latins, who live in the Italian regions of our Empire beyond Western Rome, quite suddenly became enemies when Michael Dokenianos insanely directed his command against their leaders...

Constantine IX Monomachos (4) proved to be more benevolent on the imperial throne than his predecessor. He conveyed imperial honours and gifts to almost everyone with ambition, and delighted his subjects. Suddenly storm clouds gathered in the West and threatened him with nothing less than destruction and expulsion from the throne. The aforementioned George with the surname Maniakes, thirsting for blood, began an uprising in the Italian part of the Empire with Byzantine and Albanian soldiers there, being offended because the emperor had shown him a lack of respect and fearing the emperor in view of previous hostilities. He caused great turmoil in the rest of the army opposing him and took it over. After having set up his camp at a two days' march from Thessalonika, he made his attack on the imperial camp in the evening...

When this had taken place and the usurpers had gradually calmed down, another disaster began to take its course and to spread like a poisonous weed intent on destroying the crops. The danger came from the city of Epidamnus (Durrës). The Protoprohedros Duke Basiliakes, who had been sent there by the emperor, having succeeded in avoiding Bryennius and withdrawing from Adrianopole, took over Durrës and assembled an army there from all the surrounding regions. By soliciting support for his side by means of substantial gifts, he succeeded in having the Franks enter his territory from Italy and attempted to make use of them for his side. By various pretences and means, he collected money from everyone under his order and command, set up a list and used as a pretext for this arms buildup the fact that he intended to attack Bryennius as a renegade. Once he had ensured that he had indeed assembled a large army and forces fit for action, composed of Byzantine Greeks, Bulgarians and Albanians and of his own soldiers, he set off and hastened to Thessalonika...

(1) Michael IV (r. 1034-1041).
(2) i.e. the Arabs.
(3) i.e. the recapture of Sicily in 1038-1040.
(4) Constantine IX (r. 1042-1055).

[Extracts from: Michaelis Attaliotae: Historia, Bonn 1853, p. 8, 18, 297. Translated by Robert Elsie. First published in R. Elsie: Early Albania, a Reader of Historical Texts, 11th - 17th Centuries, Wiesbaden 2003, p. 4-5.]

About the "caucasian theories" this is what Henrey Skene, a famous english journalist & anthropologist wrote:





-The Albanians
Henry Skene
Journal of the Ethnological Society of London (1848-1856), Vol. 2. (1850).

Journal of the Ethnological Society of London (1848-1856) is currently published by Royal Anthropological Institute of Great Britain and Ireland

The Albanians are divided into four tribes. These are, the Gheghides and Mirdites, the Toskides, the Tsamides, and the Liapides...............


-------------The Toskides are the most handsome of the Albanians. They have noble features, with fair hair and blue eyes, indicating the mixture of Georgian blood, which probably flows in their veins : less warlike than their countrymen of the other tribes, their stature is also less Herculean. They are supposed to have derived their name from the Toxidse, mentioned by Chardin as inhabiting Mingrelia.

The country now occupied by this tribe lies to the south of that of the Ghegs and Mirdites, and extends to the river Vojutza. It is called by themselves Toskouria. Their chief places are Elbassan and Berat, called by the Turks Arnaout Belgrad, in order to distinguish it from Belgrade on the Danube. Te-pellene, the birth-place of Ali Pasha, is now included in their territory, although it was formerly considered as belonging to the infamous Liapides. The great despot declared it, how¬ever, to be in Toskouria. and no one dared to gainsay him on a point which affected the respectability of his origin. The women of the Toske tribe are remarkable for their beauty, like those of Georgia, whence they issue, according to the conjecture of some antiquaries.


............................. In their own language they call themselves Skipetar, which name bears some affinity with that of of the Skitekip, mentioned by the Armenian geographers as inhabiting a territory near the Caspian.

-----


Author John Wilkes (The Illyrians,page 219 ) argued against Illyrian-Albanian theory:

"In the matter of physical character, skeletal evidence from prehistoric cemeteries suggests no more than average height (male 1.65 m, female 1.53). Not much reliance should perhaps be placed on attempts to define an Illyrian anthropological type as short and dark-skinned similar to modern Albanians"
Also there is a gap of several centuries between the last historical mention of Illyrians (and the Illyrian tribe Albanoi) and the later mention of Albanians and of the names Albanon and Arbanon to indicate the region.

The lack of sources about the connection between the Illyrians and the Albanians can not be taken as proof that the former are ancestors of the latter.

The Albanians appeared for the first time in the 11th century.Prior to this date there is no source mentioning their presence in the region despite the fact that in the region of modern day Albania there was one of the largest Byzantine cities,Dyrrachium.So,why didn't the Byzantines notice their presence prior to the 11th century,if the Albanian were always there on the mountains of Albania?

The Byzantines had a clear knowledge of the people who were living inside the boundaries of the empire,and outside as well.
One could say that the Albanians are descendants of a migratory people that settled in the region during the Dark Ages,when the byzantine authorities had no control over the northern Balkans(6th century).

On the other hand some late Byzantine sources clearly mention the Albanians sometimes as Illyrians.At the same time the scholars used ancient names to describe modern people,they called the Bulgarians as Scythians,the turks as Persians etc.


Also Here's what some linguists have concluded:

*. The Illyrian toponyms known from antiquity, e.g. Shkφder from the ancient Scodra (Livius), Tomor from Tomarus (Strabo, Pliny, etc.), have not been directly inherited in Albanian: the contemporary forms of these names do not correspond to the phonetic laws of Albanian. The same also applies to the ancient toponyms of Latin origin in this region.

*. The most ancient loanwords from Latin in Albanian have the phonetic form of eastern Balkan Latin, i.e. of proto-Romanian, and not of western Balkan Latin, i.e. of old Dalmatian Latin. Albanian, therefore, did not take its borrowings from Vulgar Latin as spoken in Illyria.
(this is from another theory that proves your origin to be somewhere in Carpathia)

*. The Adriatic coast was not part of the primitive home of the Albanians, because the maritime terminology of Albanian is not their own, but is borrowed from different languages.

*. Another indication against local Albanian origin is the insignificant number of ancient Greek loanwords in Albanian. If the primitive home of the Albanians had been Albania itself, then the Albanian language would have to have many more ancient Greek loanwords.

*.The old home of the Albanians must have been near to that of the proto-Romanians. The oldest Latin elements in Albanian come from proto-Romanians, i.e. eastern Balkan Latin, and not from Dalmatian, western Balkan Latin that was spoken in Illyria. Cf. the phonetic development of the following words:
Vulgar Latin caballum 'horse' Rum. cal, Alb. kal
Vulgar Latin cubitum 'elbow' Rum. cot. Alb. kut
Vulgar Latin lucta 'struggle, fight' Rum. lupt, Arum. luft, Alb. luftλ

Sources :
H. Kronasser, ‘Zum Stand der Illyristik’ (Linguistique Balkanique, IV, 1962, pp. 5 ff.); R. Katicic', 'Namengebiete im rφmischen Dalmatian" (Die Sprache, X, Vienna, 1964, pp. 23 ff.); id., Illyrii proprie dicti (iva Antika, Skopje, XIII/XIV, 1964, pp. 87 ff.); id., 'Suvremena istraivanja o jeziku starosjedilaca ilirskih provincija' (Nauno druÅ¡tvo SR Bosne i Hercegovine, IV, Sarajevo, 1964, pp. 9 ff.); G. Alfφldy, 'Die Namengebung der Urbevφlkerung der rφmischen Provinz Dalmatia’ (Beitrδge zur Namenforschung, 15, Heidelberg, 1964, pp. 54 ff).



Oh and btw the "amateur" you said happens to have one of the most famous blogs on the net about anthropology!

And in the case of being indigenous and only mixed with neighbhouring nations, even then the deal its whether they were directly from Albania or from some northern part. For instance it is argued that Albanians have their origins in southern Serbia(today),which would connect them with the Dacians and maybe the Vucendols..

[J.a.d.o.r.e]

Once more Magdalena Christo has proven her stupidity

Magdalena, Liking it or not (obviously Not!) , Evi's Greek, no matter what you do you can't change her ethnicity or the fact that she calls herself proud Thessalonikian!And you obviously have no right to change her ethnicity when its greek and she feels greek.

No matter is she's half Arvanite and one of her ancestors was in fact albanian, that would make her what.... 0.2% Albanian...2% Albanian???

EVEN IF SHE WAS HALF ALBANIAN SHE WOULD STILL NOT BE ALBANIAN! You forget her mom is from Thessaloniki and you forget the names of her parents and her village.

In That village there is or was no albanian which you are free to search online.

You are basically disregarding basic human rights as the right to feel proud to be of any ethnicity.!!!!!

I just love how fanatised-utopic-illusional and obsessive you are.

Any more clue of an inferiority complex here?

Cause you're all like..... "I'm not listening... lalalaalalalalala"

[J.a.d.o.r.e]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrros_Dimas

Pyrros Dimas (Greek: Πύρρος Δήμας), born on 13 October 1971) is a retired Greek[1] weightlifter, considered as one of the greatest of all time, having been three times Olympic champion and three times World Champion.

Dimas was born to ethnic Greek parents[2] in Himara, Albania.[3]


The name Pyrros is actually ancient greek....


Oh dear Magdalena.. When will you grow up?

[Magdalena Christo]

Once more Magdalena Christo has proven her stupidity

Magdalena, Liking it or not (obviously Not!) , Evi's Greek, no matter what you do you can't change her ethnicity or the fact that she calls herself proud Thessalonikian!And you obviously have no right to change her ethnicity when its greek and she feels greek.

No matter is she's half Arvanite and one of her ancestors was in fact albanian, that would make her what.... 0.2% Albanian...2% Albanian???

EVEN IF SHE WAS HALF ALBANIAN SHE WOULD STILL NOT BE ALBANIAN! You forget her mom is from Thessaloniki and you forget the names of her parents and her village.

In That village there is or was no albanian which you are free to search online.

You are basically disregarding basic human rights as the right to feel proud to be of any ethnicity.!!!!!

I just love how fanatised-utopic-illusional and obsessive you are.

Any more clue of an inferiority complex here?

Cause you're all like..... "I'm not listening... lalalaalalalalala"

She can't be an Arvanite from Janina you moron, Arvanites are the Albanians that migrated to southern Greece during the medieval times... they have assimilated into Greeks to a certain extent (they have Greek surnames nowadays, not Albanian ones) because they've had hundreds of years of Greek Anti- Albanian propaganda brainwashing. Whereas Evi Toska is from Janina, Chameria... therefor she has an Albanian surname, she's purely ethnic Albanian. Accept it and deal with it!!! Chameria is ethnic Albanian land, just because your salad bowl country refuses to recognize its minorities doesn't change the fact that they're still there, and we know an Albanian when we see one, and she's 100% ALBANIAN!

[Magdalena Christo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrros_Dimas

Pyrros Dimas (Greek: Πύρρος Δήμας), born on 13 October 1971) is a retired Greek[1] weightlifter, considered as one of the greatest of all time, having been three times Olympic champion and three times World Champion.

Dimas was born to ethnic Greek parents[2] in Himara, Albania.[3]


The name Pyrros is actually ancient greek....


Oh dear Magdalena.. When will you grow up?

Ahhh another wiki page created and edited by a Greek chauvinist as yourself, no wonder you only copy & paste only from wiki... you're an uneducated chauvinist, you think I didn't know about what wiki says of Pirro Dhima????? Pirro is an Epirote & therefor ancient Albanian name, that's why you'll find thousands of men in Albania that have it.

[J.a.d.o.r.e]

Once more Magdalena Christo has proven her stupidity

Magdalena, Liking it or not (obviously Not!) , Evi's Greek, no matter what you do you can't change her ethnicity or the fact that she calls herself proud Thessalonikian!And you obviously have no right to change her ethnicity when its greek and she feels greek.

No matter is she's half Arvanite and one of her ancestors was in fact albanian, that would make her what.... 0.2% Albanian...2% Albanian???

EVEN IF SHE WAS HALF ALBANIAN SHE WOULD STILL NOT BE ALBANIAN! You forget her mom is from Thessaloniki and you forget the names of her parents and her village.

In That village there is or was no albanian which you are free to search online.

You are basically disregarding basic human rights as the right to feel proud to be of any ethnicity.!!!!!

I just love how fanatised-utopic-illusional and obsessive you are.

Any more clue of an inferiority complex here?

Cause you're all like..... "I'm not listening... lalalaalalalalala"

She can't be an Arvanite from Janina you moron, Arvanites are the Albanians that migrated to southern Greece during the medieval times... they have assimilated into Greeks to a certain extent (they have Greek surnames nowadays, not Albanian ones) because they've had hundreds of years of Greek Anti- Albanian propaganda brainwashing. Whereas Evi Toska is from Janina, Chameria... therefor she has an Albanian surname, she's purely ethnic Albanian. Accept it and deal with it!!! Chameria is ethnic Albanian land, just because your salad bowl country refuses to recognize its minorities doesn't change the fact that they're still there, and we know an Albanian when we see one, and she's 100% ALBANIAN!

Hey, Moron! Ioannina is a Greek area, it has always been greek so don't claim land you would wish for. Ioannina is one of the greatest greek historical cities.!

Evi is NOT from the city of Ioannina ! Evi's from a village in the state of Ioannina!

The city just happens to be the capital of a whole area-state,just like in U.S.A

California city is different from the state of California...California is a specific city while there are other towns,cities,neighbhourhoods around!

Do i have to post this again about the descents of Albanians and Arvanites?

The name Arvanoi/Arvanites was GIVEN to them by the Byzantines just because these tribes lived in the Arvanon area.The Byzantine Greeks were font of using ancient names to describe modern nations.Thus Anna Komnene in Alexias used this name for the first time to describe the nomadic clans that lived there.
The real ethnonym of the Albanians,the one that they use themselves in their language,is Skipetari.

Partly correct.. During the Byzantine era the term Albanians is mentioned for the first time.. but not for the population of Arvanon..
In Anna Komnene's Alexiad we see that the 'Albanians' and 'Arvanites' or to be exact, the "inhabitants bordering Arvanon" are desribed as separate people..

In book 6 we read:

as Robert was being worried on all sides by the so-called Albanians and by the natives of Dalmatia sent by Bodinus.


In book 7 we read:

When some small towns bordering on Arbanum fell into Bohemund's hands, their inhabitants, who were intimately acquainted with all the roads round Arbanum, came to him and explained the exact position of Devra and showed him the hidden paths.

So she actually indicates the difference between Albanians and the "natives of Dalmatia" and the "inhabitants of the villages bordering to Arbanon"

.
.
.
.
.




Do you think people of Arvanite origin don't exist today? Are you just stupid or a troll? Or completely dellusionate??
There are 150,000 Arvanites, living in 300 villages.!

Many Arvanites find the designation "Albanians" offensive as they identify nationally and ethnically as Greeks and not Albanians.
You can also search that on the web even though I am sure you won't because you prefer listening to your creative imagination

[J.a.d.o.r.e]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrros_Dimas

Pyrros Dimas (Greek: Πύρρος Δήμας), born on 13 October 1971) is a retired Greek[1] weightlifter, considered as one of the greatest of all time, having been three times Olympic champion and three times World Champion.

Dimas was born to ethnic Greek parents[2] in Himara, Albania.[3]


The name Pyrros is actually ancient greek....


Oh dear Magdalena.. When will you grow up?

Ahhh another wiki page created and edited by a Greek chauvinist as yourself, no wonder you only copy & paste only from wiki... you're an uneducated chauvinist, you think I didn't know about what wiki says of Pirro Dhima????? Pirro is an Epirote & therefor ancient Albanian name, that's why you'll find thousands of men in Albania that have it.

You're truly schizophrenic....

Pyrrhos is an ancienst greek name with an ancient greek meaning.!
Epirotans were Greeks and Hellenes not Albanians!

Pyrros in fact was of Dorian and he belonged to the most succesful and notable Dorian tribe the Molossians!

Albanians also have other ancient greek names like Aphrodite and Antigone

Or perhaps Sofokles and his drama (tragedy) called "Antigone" and the Greek Goddess Aphrodite were all Albanians?

Btw Pyrros Dimas interview...with photos of his family! M O R O N !

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igC2a1irSnA[/youtube]

Read what the info says

"many Albanians wrongly accuse him as a traitor for competing under the Greek flag. They believe that even if his parents are Greek, just because he was born in Albania he shouldn't compete under the colors of another state. The saddest thing though is that none of his accusers is interested to hear what HE HAS TO SAY about his origins.

In this interview Pyrros Dimas talks about his Greek grandmother who played an important role to his upbringing, his rough childhood years and the troubles he and his family faced when they moved to Tirana because they were Greeks. A prime example the nickname the Albanians gave him, "GRECO MASCARA" (Stupid Greek) that followed him all the way to adulthood. But also about the support of his father that encouraged him to be proud of his identity and how to find strength through difficulties. He also talks about the beginning of his career and the path to glory with struggle and hard training."

[J.a.d.o.r.e]

There's an interesting fact about Pyrrhus...

Pyrrhus was married five times: his first wife Antigone borne him a daughter called Olympias and in 295 BC she died possibly in childbirth while giving birth to their son, Ptolemy who died in the same year as his mother.[13] His second wife was Lanassa, daughter of King Agathocles of Syracuse (r. 317–289 BC), whom he married in about 295 BC and the couple had two sons Alexander[14] and Helenus, Lanassa left Pyrrhus. His third wife was the daughter of Audoleon, King of Paeonia; his fourth wife was the Illyrian princess Bircenna, who was the daughter of King Bardylis II (r. circa 295–290 BC), and his fifth wife was the daughter of Ptolemy Keraunos, whom he married in 281/280 BC.

Bircenna was the daughter of Bardylis II of the Dardanian Kingdom.[1] Bircenna was one of the five wives of Pyrrhus of Epirus; she married him around 292 BC.[2][3] Pyrrhus married Bircenna for diplomatic reasons and to increase his power in southern Illyria as he was an ally of Bircenna's father. Bircenna had a son named Helenus, who at an early age accompanied his father in his ambitious campaigns conducted in the Italian peninsula[4]

what was that?

yes!she named their son Helenus from Hellene = Έλληνας

An other proof that Pyrrhus was not just Greek but as it was known he was feared by Illyrians.

[Magdalena Christo]

Once more Magdalena Christo has proven her stupidity

Magdalena, Liking it or not (obviously Not!) , Evi's Greek, no matter what you do you can't change her ethnicity or the fact that she calls herself proud Thessalonikian!And you obviously have no right to change her ethnicity when its greek and she feels greek.

No matter is she's half Arvanite and one of her ancestors was in fact albanian, that would make her what.... 0.2% Albanian...2% Albanian???

EVEN IF SHE WAS HALF ALBANIAN SHE WOULD STILL NOT BE ALBANIAN! You forget her mom is from Thessaloniki and you forget the names of her parents and her village.

In That village there is or was no albanian which you are free to search online.

You are basically disregarding basic human rights as the right to feel proud to be of any ethnicity.!!!!!

I just love how fanatised-utopic-illusional and obsessive you are.

Any more clue of an inferiority complex here?

Cause you're all like..... "I'm not listening... lalalaalalalalala"

She can't be an Arvanite from Janina you moron, Arvanites are the Albanians that migrated to southern Greece during the medieval times... they have assimilated into Greeks to a certain extent (they have Greek surnames nowadays, not Albanian ones) because they've had hundreds of years of Greek Anti- Albanian propaganda brainwashing. Whereas Evi Toska is from Janina, Chameria... therefor she has an Albanian surname, she's purely ethnic Albanian. Accept it and deal with it!!! Chameria is ethnic Albanian land, just because your salad bowl country refuses to recognize its minorities doesn't change the fact that they're still there, and we know an Albanian when we see one, and she's 100% ALBANIAN!

Hey, Moron! Ioannina is a Greek area, it has always been greek so don't claim land you would wish for. Ioannina is one of the greatest greek historical cities.!

Evi is NOT from the city of Ioannina ! Evi's from a village in the state of Ioannina!

The city just happens to be the capital of a whole area-state,just like in U.S.A

California city is different from the state of California...California is a specific city while there are other towns,cities,neighbhourhoods around!

Do i have to post this again about the descents of Albanians and Arvanites?

The name Arvanoi/Arvanites was GIVEN to them by the Byzantines just because these tribes lived in the Arvanon area.The Byzantine Greeks were font of using ancient names to describe modern nations.Thus Anna Komnene in Alexias used this name for the first time to describe the nomadic clans that lived there.
The real ethnonym of the Albanians,the one that they use themselves in their language,is Skipetari.

Partly correct.. During the Byzantine era the term Albanians is mentioned for the first time.. but not for the population of Arvanon..
In Anna Komnene's Alexiad we see that the 'Albanians' and 'Arvanites' or to be exact, the "inhabitants bordering Arvanon" are desribed as separate people..

In book 6 we read:

as Robert was being worried on all sides by the so-called Albanians and by the natives of Dalmatia sent by Bodinus.


In book 7 we read:

When some small towns bordering on Arbanum fell into Bohemund's hands, their inhabitants, who were intimately acquainted with all the roads round Arbanum, came to him and explained the exact position of Devra and showed him the hidden paths.

So she actually indicates the difference between Albanians and the "natives of Dalmatia" and the "inhabitants of the villages bordering to Arbanon"

.
.
.
.
.




Do you think people of Arvanite origin don't exist today? Are you just stupid or a troll? Or completely dellusionate??
There are 150,000 Arvanites, living in 300 villages.!

Many Arvanites find the designation "Albanians" offensive as they identify nationally and ethnically as Greeks and not Albanians.
You can also search that on the web even though I am sure you won't because you prefer listening to your creative imagination

Don't waste your time & most importantly MY time with your Greek bs propaganda, I told you even earlier... because I don't buy any of it. I know the history of Albania.... I know the history of Greece... I have visited Greece and I know what the real Greeks look like as well as what the Albanians that live there look like... do not try to play with me trying to feed me the lies you have fed to the world, because I know everything about your so called country. Take your chauvinist Greek lies to someone who is unaware as to who the real Greeks truly are, because that's what you Greeks can do best lie. & it is sooo funny how your so called country men act like nazis.... when did Greeks become white??? hahah The only reason there's white Greeks is because they've mixed with Albanians & Slavs... so quit being racist, please.

[Magdalena Christo]

There's an interesting fact about Pyrrhus...

Pyrrhus was married five times: his first wife Antigone borne him a daughter called Olympias and in 295 BC she died possibly in childbirth while giving birth to their son, Ptolemy who died in the same year as his mother.[13] His second wife was Lanassa, daughter of King Agathocles of Syracuse (r. 317–289 BC), whom he married in about 295 BC and the couple had two sons Alexander[14] and Helenus, Lanassa left Pyrrhus. His third wife was the daughter of Audoleon, King of Paeonia; his fourth wife was the Illyrian princess Bircenna, who was the daughter of King Bardylis II (r. circa 295–290 BC), and his fifth wife was the daughter of Ptolemy Keraunos, whom he married in 281/280 BC.

Bircenna was the daughter of Bardylis II of the Dardanian Kingdom.[1] Bircenna was one of the five wives of Pyrrhus of Epirus; she married him around 292 BC.[2][3] Pyrrhus married Bircenna for diplomatic reasons and to increase his power in southern Illyria as he was an ally of Bircenna's father. Bircenna had a son named Helenus, who at an early age accompanied his father in his ambitious campaigns conducted in the Italian peninsula[4]

what was that?

yes!she named their son Helenus from Hellene = Έλληνας

An other proof that Pyrrhus was not just Greek but as it was known he was feared by Illyrians.

Wikipedia isn't a reliable source of information as anybody can edit the pages there, as I previously mentioned.... how about you open a history book written by a real historian for a change, and not edited by a Greek chauvinist... I strongly suggest you do that!

[J.a.d.o.r.e]

Once more Magdalena Christo has proven her stupidity

Magdalena, Liking it or not (obviously Not!) , Evi's Greek, no matter what you do you can't change her ethnicity or the fact that she calls herself proud Thessalonikian!And you obviously have no right to change her ethnicity when its greek and she feels greek.

No matter is she's half Arvanite and one of her ancestors was in fact albanian, that would make her what.... 0.2% Albanian...2% Albanian???

EVEN IF SHE WAS HALF ALBANIAN SHE WOULD STILL NOT BE ALBANIAN! You forget her mom is from Thessaloniki and you forget the names of her parents and her village.

In That village there is or was no albanian which you are free to search online.

You are basically disregarding basic human rights as the right to feel proud to be of any ethnicity.!!!!!

I just love how fanatised-utopic-illusional and obsessive you are.

Any more clue of an inferiority complex here?

Cause you're all like..... "I'm not listening... lalalaalalalalala"

She can't be an Arvanite from Janina you moron, Arvanites are the Albanians that migrated to southern Greece during the medieval times... they have assimilated into Greeks to a certain extent (they have Greek surnames nowadays, not Albanian ones) because they've had hundreds of years of Greek Anti- Albanian propaganda brainwashing. Whereas Evi Toska is from Janina, Chameria... therefor she has an Albanian surname, she's purely ethnic Albanian. Accept it and deal with it!!! Chameria is ethnic Albanian land, just because your salad bowl country refuses to recognize its minorities doesn't change the fact that they're still there, and we know an Albanian when we see one, and she's 100% ALBANIAN!

Hey, Moron! Ioannina is a Greek area, it has always been greek so don't claim land you would wish for. Ioannina is one of the greatest greek historical cities.!

Evi is NOT from the city of Ioannina ! Evi's from a village in the state of Ioannina!

The city just happens to be the capital of a whole area-state,just like in U.S.A

California city is different from the state of California...California is a specific city while there are other towns,cities,neighbhourhoods around!

Do i have to post this again about the descents of Albanians and Arvanites?

The name Arvanoi/Arvanites was GIVEN to them by the Byzantines just because these tribes lived in the Arvanon area.The Byzantine Greeks were font of using ancient names to describe modern nations.Thus Anna Komnene in Alexias used this name for the first time to describe the nomadic clans that lived there.
The real ethnonym of the Albanians,the one that they use themselves in their language,is Skipetari.

Partly correct.. During the Byzantine era the term Albanians is mentioned for the first time.. but not for the population of Arvanon..
In Anna Komnene's Alexiad we see that the 'Albanians' and 'Arvanites' or to be exact, the "inhabitants bordering Arvanon" are desribed as separate people..

In book 6 we read:

as Robert was being worried on all sides by the so-called Albanians and by the natives of Dalmatia sent by Bodinus.


In book 7 we read:

When some small towns bordering on Arbanum fell into Bohemund's hands, their inhabitants, who were intimately acquainted with all the roads round Arbanum, came to him and explained the exact position of Devra and showed him the hidden paths.

So she actually indicates the difference between Albanians and the "natives of Dalmatia" and the "inhabitants of the villages bordering to Arbanon"

.
.
.
.
.




Do you think people of Arvanite origin don't exist today? Are you just stupid or a troll? Or completely dellusionate??
There are 150,000 Arvanites, living in 300 villages.!

Many Arvanites find the designation "Albanians" offensive as they identify nationally and ethnically as Greeks and not Albanians.
You can also search that on the web even though I am sure you won't because you prefer listening to your creative imagination

Don't waste your time & most importantly MY time with your Greek bs propaganda, I told you even earlier... because I don't buy any of it. I know the history of Albania.... I know the history of Greece... I have visited Greece and I know what the real Greeks look like as well as what the Albanians that live there look like... do not try to play with me trying to feed me the lies you have fed to world, because I know everything about your so called country. Take your chauvinist Greek lies to someone who is unaware as to who the real Greeks truly are, because that's what you Greeks can do best lie. & it is sooo funny how your so called country men act like nazis.... when did Greeks become white??? hahah The only reason there's white Greeks is because they've mixed with Albanians & Slavs... so quit being racist, please.

99.5% of Greeks are indeed white and caucasian liking it or not. I prefer to live in the real world and not in a world with propaganda and fanatism!

There are plently of Albanians that pass for Arabs,Turks and Gypsies...

Albanians are not even considered white by Russia and the nazi regimmes and also the first Nazi, Hitler.
Albanians indeed incorportated with him but even though you call us nazi we never killed anyone behalf of the nazis , even though Hitler himself called greeks aryans and white.

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t406492/

Girl live in your own world, you forget that only a 12% of the whole greek population has a slight slavic influence (and less than 1% albanian!!!! lol!)

Even further...

You proved who the real nazi is by even reffering to the term white. You show prejudism against those who are not by trying to show greeks as inferior because according to you we are not white. However the caucasian dna in greece is at a bigger percent than Albania. In Greece 99.5% has caucasian dna while in Albania 98.2%....Oupss

Now excuse me... I have a life to live

[J.a.d.o.r.e]

There's an interesting fact about Pyrrhus...

Pyrrhus was married five times: his first wife Antigone borne him a daughter called Olympias and in 295 BC she died possibly in childbirth while giving birth to their son, Ptolemy who died in the same year as his mother.[13] His second wife was Lanassa, daughter of King Agathocles of Syracuse (r. 317–289 BC), whom he married in about 295 BC and the couple had two sons Alexander[14] and Helenus, Lanassa left Pyrrhus. His third wife was the daughter of Audoleon, King of Paeonia; his fourth wife was the Illyrian princess Bircenna, who was the daughter of King Bardylis II (r. circa 295–290 BC), and his fifth wife was the daughter of Ptolemy Keraunos, whom he married in 281/280 BC.

Bircenna was the daughter of Bardylis II of the Dardanian Kingdom.[1] Bircenna was one of the five wives of Pyrrhus of Epirus; she married him around 292 BC.[2][3] Pyrrhus married Bircenna for diplomatic reasons and to increase his power in southern Illyria as he was an ally of Bircenna's father. Bircenna had a son named Helenus, who at an early age accompanied his father in his ambitious campaigns conducted in the Italian peninsula[4]

what was that?

yes!she named their son Helenus from Hellene = Έλληνας

An other proof that Pyrrhus was not just Greek but as it was known he was feared by Illyrians.

Wikipedia isn't a reliable source of information as anybody can edit the pages there, as I previously mentioned.... how about you open a history book written by a real historian for a change, and not edited by a Greek chauvinist... I strongly suggest you do that!

This one is veryfied. You can search about Pyrrhus and his wives on any website or historical book you like and you will see it's true.
There are similar acts in Albania too along with mass propaganda!