Most Diverse Peagent in the World

[Vladrak]

One of the reasons that I love the Miss Canada Universe Peagent is that it is one of the most (if not the most) diverse peagents in the world. We have had winners whose heritage ranges from Asian (India, China) to European (UK, Bulgaria, Armenia, Russia, Moldova, France, Hungary Norway, Ukraine) to South America (Brazil) to the middle East (Iran) and from Canada itself.

There is no discrimination regarding the heritage and no pathetic outcry that the winner does not look Canadian (as was the case in Miss Fiji World, where the public went mad coz the winner did not look Fijian). Every girl has an equal chance to win irrespective of their heritage, race, religion colour (and now even gender).

We often see that some misso forumers start saying that a particular contestant does not look like a person from the country that she is representing, but who are we to judge on how a nations people should look like.

HATSOFF to the MUC organisation for your great work. You have shown that Canada is a multiracial country and I really hope that other national peagents take your que and start becoming more diverse in picking their winners.




Year Name Heritage

2012 Sahar Biniaz Iran, India
2011 Chelsae Durocher France
2010 Elena Semikina Russia, Moldova
2009 Mariana Valente Brazil
2008 Samantha Tajik Iran
2007 Inga Skaya Russia
2006 Alice Panikian Bulgaria, Armenia
2005 Natalie Glebova Russia
2004 Venessa Fisher United Kingdom
2003 Leanne Marie Cecile France
2002 Neelam Verma India
2001 Cristina Rémond France, Hungary
2000 Kim Yee China, Ukraine
1999 Shannon McArthur Canada
1998 Juliana Thiessen Norway

What do you guys think?? Should other countries start to be as diverse as the Miss Universe Canada??

[Vladrak]

I love most of their winners and really hope that Sahar places in top 5

[malexreyes]

I cant help but agree with you on this. I guess the same can be said to US, Philippines, Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia and other European Countries. They picked winners regardless whether they look local or of mix race.

[malexreyes]

I cant help but agree with you on this. I guess the same can be said to US, Philippines, Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia and other European Countries. They picked winners regardless whether they look local or of mix race.

[DivabyNature]

I cant help but agree with you on this. I guess the same can be said to US, Philippines, Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia and other European Countries. They picked winners regardless whether they look local or of mix race.

Can you honestly say that the Philippines is in the same league as Canada when it comes to nondiscrimination of transgender women? Better yet, can you say that all Filipinos do not discriminate against women whose skin color is dark and labeled as "katulong-looking"? Or is it not true that only fair skinned women are favored by the majority of people to represent the Philippines?

[malexreyes]

I cant help but agree with you on this. I guess the same can be said to US, Philippines, Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia and other European Countries. They picked winners regardless whether they look local or of mix race.

Can you honestly say that the Philippines is in the same league as Canada when it comes to nondiscrimination of transgender women? Better yet, can you say that all Filipinos do not discriminate against women whose skin color is dark and labeled as "katulong-looking"? Or is it not true that only fair skinned women are favored by the majority of people to represent the Philippines?

I dont think Venus Raj, Miriam Q, Isabel Lopez or Chat Silayan (+) are fair-skinned. They are of Malay race (brown if thats what i think some people call it. Even L. Felipe, even if not a winner isnt fair-skinned. My point was, we had Chinita-looking winners, caucasian race (mix),and "brown"-colored.

[XAMURAI]

Canada, in modern times, is a country that very much relies on immigrants to man their lifeless rural regions. They badly need people there. The original settlers of Canada were the native American Indians, who were nomads in nature. They did not stay in one particular place, but move depending on the season and availability of food. It's only after it was "discovered" by explorers and imperial expansionists when European settlers started to flourish in the eastern part, while during the 20th century, the western similarly part got a flourishing Asian population. But nowadays, we see a lot of second and third generation of Asian settlers in Canada. The British and French settlers may be what we can call as the pioneering batch of immigrants, that's why they are the dominant race in the western region, but most of them would consider themselves as pure Canadians.

As time passes by, Canada is becoming more and more diverse! Asians, Indians, Africans, Persians, Arabs, Eastern Europeans and Russians are getting noticed, even on the pageant scene. But, we still have to wait for a non-Caucasian Prime Minister to lead Canada....

[DivabyNature]

I cant help but agree with you on this. I guess the same can be said to US, Philippines, Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia and other European Countries. They picked winners regardless whether they look local or of mix race.

Can you honestly say that the Philippines is in the same league as Canada when it comes to nondiscrimination of transgender women? Better yet, can you say that all Filipinos do not discriminate against women whose skin color is dark and labeled as "katulong-looking"? Or is it not true that only fair skinned women are favored by the majority of people to represent the Philippines?

I dont think Venus Raj, Miriam Q, Isabel Lopez or Chat Silayan (+) are fair-skinned. They are of Malay race (brown if thats what i think some people call it. Even L. Felipe, even if not a winner isnt fair-skinned. My point was, we had Chinita-looking winners, caucasian race (mix),and "brown"-colored.

I knew you were going to mention those names, but the question is "can you really say that the majority of Filipinos wholeheartedly accepted those beauty queens to represent the Philippines"? As much as I can remember, except for Miriam Quiambao and Chat Silayan, Venus Raj had a whole lot of detractors right after she won the national pageant though her supporters outnumbered the latter. The same as with Isabel Lopez who received her fair share of negative criticism from the pageant fans.

The perspectives of this thread is far beyond what you see. If the two beauty queens you mentioned were never bashed by some of their countrymen on the basis of their skin color, then it is safe to say that discrimination does not exist in the Philippines. Being a Misso forumer, I am sure that you have read the numerous threads created against the current Miss Universe Philippines and how she is relentlessly discriminated by others. During the Miss Universe Canada whereas the issue of a transgender woman participating in it stirred worldwide controversy, did you not see the number of Filipinos on this Forum who were totally and are still against it?

I have no knowledge of your awareness of how transgender women are treated in the Philippine society, but to name a few, they are not recognized and protected by the law; they are not given access to basic necessities other citizens are provided; social benefits are impossible to attain because of who and what they are; and religion do not recognize them or better yet they are treated like "excomunicados." With these facts, diversity is out of range in the realms of acceptance and tolerance.

If none of these social dilemas exist in the Philippine society, then we all can say the Philippines is in the league of Canada in terms of pageant diversity.

[malexreyes]

I cant help but agree with you on this. I guess the same can be said to US, Philippines, Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia and other European Countries. They picked winners regardless whether they look local or of mix race.

Can you honestly say that the Philippines is in the same league as Canada when it comes to nondiscrimination of transgender women? Better yet, can you say that all Filipinos do not discriminate against women whose skin color is dark and labeled as "katulong-looking"? Or is it not true that only fair skinned women are favored by the majority of people to represent the Philippines?

I dont think Venus Raj, Miriam Q, Isabel Lopez or Chat Silayan (+) are fair-skinned. They are of Malay race (brown if thats what i think some people call it. Even L. Felipe, even if not a winner isnt fair-skinned. My point was, we had Chinita-looking winners, caucasian race (mix),and "brown"-colored.

I knew you were going to mention those names, but the question is "can you really say that the majority of Filipinos wholeheartedly accepted those beauty queens to represent the Philippines"? As much as I can remember, except for Miriam Quiambao and Chat Silayan, Venus Raj had a whole lot of detractors right after she won the national pageant though her supporters outnumbered the latter. The same as with Isabel Lopez who received her fair share of negative criticism from the pageant fans.

The perspectives of this thread is far beyond what you see. If the two beauty queens you mentioned were never bashed by some of their countrymen on the basis of their skin color, then it is safe to say that discrimination does not exist in the Philippines. Being a Misso forumer, I am sure that you have read the numerous threads created against the current Miss Universe Philippines and how she is relentlessly discriminated by others. During the Miss Universe Canada whereas the issue of a transgender woman participating in it stirred worldwide controversy, did you not see the number of Filipinos on this Forum who were totally and are still against it?

I have no knowledge of your awareness of how transgender women are treated in the Philippine society, but to name a few, they are not recognized and protected by the law; they are not given access to basic necessities other citizens are provided; social benefits are impossible to attain because of who and what they are; and religion do not recognize them or better yet they are treated like "excomunicados." With these facts, diversity is out of range in the realms acceptance and tolerance.

If none of these social dilemas exist in the Philippine society, then we all can say the Philippines is in the league of Canada in terms of pageant diversity.

The TS was about how diverse Canada is in picking winners. There was no mention about Transgender women so I dont know why your keep on thrusting that issue on my throat! I cannot answer matter pertinent to how Filipinos treat Transgender coz thats a different issue or topic. I am only raising my comparison since we have had winners of different race like Canada does, regardless whether they were accepted favorably by the majority or not.

if you want to make an issue about TRANSGENDER WOMEN, or how they are being treated anywhere else like the Philippines then make your owen TS.

[DivabyNature]

I cant help but agree with you on this. I guess the same can be said to US, Philippines, Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia and other European Countries. They picked winners regardless whether they look local or of mix race.

Can you honestly say that the Philippines is in the same league as Canada when it comes to nondiscrimination of transgender women? Better yet, can you say that all Filipinos do not discriminate against women whose skin color is dark and labeled as "katulong-looking"? Or is it not true that only fair skinned women are favored by the majority of people to represent the Philippines?

I dont think Venus Raj, Miriam Q, Isabel Lopez or Chat Silayan (+) are fair-skinned. They are of Malay race (brown if thats what i think some people call it. Even L. Felipe, even if not a winner isnt fair-skinned. My point was, we had Chinita-looking winners, caucasian race (mix),and "brown"-colored.

I knew you were going to mention those names, but the question is "can you really say that the majority of Filipinos wholeheartedly accepted those beauty queens to represent the Philippines"? As much as I can remember, except for Miriam Quiambao and Chat Silayan, Venus Raj had a whole lot of detractors right after she won the national pageant though her supporters outnumbered the latter. The same as with Isabel Lopez who received her fair share of negative criticism from the pageant fans.

The perspectives of this thread is far beyond what you see. If the two beauty queens you mentioned were never bashed by some of their countrymen on the basis of their skin color, then it is safe to say that discrimination does not exist in the Philippines. Being a Misso forumer, I am sure that you have read the numerous threads created against the current Miss Universe Philippines and how she is relentlessly discriminated by others. During the Miss Universe Canada whereas the issue of a transgender woman participating in it stirred worldwide controversy, did you not see the number of Filipinos on this Forum who were totally and are still against it?

I have no knowledge of your awareness of how transgender women are treated in the Philippine society, but to name a few, they are not recognized and protected by the law; they are not given access to basic necessities other citizens are provided; social benefits are impossible to attain because of who and what they are; and religion do not recognize them or better yet they are treated like "excomunicados." With these facts, diversity is out of range in the realms acceptance and tolerance.

If none of these social dilemas exist in the Philippine society, then we all can say the Philippines is in the league of Canada in terms of pageant diversity.

The TS was about how diverse Canada is in picking winners. There was no mention about Transgender women so I dont know why your keep on thrusting that issue on my throat! I cannot answer matter pertinent to how Filipinos treat Transgender coz thats a different issue or topic. I am only raising my comparison since we have had winners of different race like Canada does, regardless whether they were accepted favorably by the majority or not.

if you want to make an issue about TRANSGENDER WOMEN, or how they are being treated anywhere else like the Philippines then make your owen TS.

True that the thread focuses on diversity of winners according to their ethnicity, but to tag Canada as diverse and for you to compare it to the Philippines is irresponsible and lack senstivity. Canada is not termed diverse because they choose the winners out of nowhere but through the principles or ideals that beauty is beneath skin color, no matter what origin and background of the winners may be. Canada is diverse because they are open to all women who aspire to be recognized and share their totality as women.

The Philippines can pick winners with different racial backgrounds or ethnic makeups, but if the Filipino people express their dislikes in terms of whether the girl is too white, or too black, or not Filipina looking enough, or stereotypical of a "tsimay," that's discrimination (i.e., Jennifer Cortez, Isable Lopez, Desiree Verdadero, Perfida Limpin, Violeta Naluz, and all others who people cannot fathom how and why they won).

I brought up the issue of transgender women in this discussion because through their participation, or at least through Jenna Talackova's participation, in the recently concluded Miss Universe Canada, I can totally deduce that Canada is indeed diverse. The Philippines can only strive to be in the league of Canada in terms of diversity.

[malexreyes]

I cant help but agree with you on this. I guess the same can be said to US, Philippines, Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia and other European Countries. They picked winners regardless whether they look local or of mix race.

Can you honestly say that the Philippines is in the same league as Canada when it comes to nondiscrimination of transgender women? Better yet, can you say that all Filipinos do not discriminate against women whose skin color is dark and labeled as "katulong-looking"? Or is it not true that only fair skinned women are favored by the majority of people to represent the Philippines?

I dont think Venus Raj, Miriam Q, Isabel Lopez or Chat Silayan (+) are fair-skinned. They are of Malay race (brown if thats what i think some people call it. Even L. Felipe, even if not a winner isnt fair-skinned. My point was, we had Chinita-looking winners, caucasian race (mix),and "brown"-colored.

I knew you were going to mention those names, but the question is "can you really say that the majority of Filipinos wholeheartedly accepted those beauty queens to represent the Philippines"? As much as I can remember, except for Miriam Quiambao and Chat Silayan, Venus Raj had a whole lot of detractors right after she won the national pageant though her supporters outnumbered the latter. The same as with Isabel Lopez who received her fair share of negative criticism from the pageant fans.

The perspectives of this thread is far beyond what you see. If the two beauty queens you mentioned were never bashed by some of their countrymen on the basis of their skin color, then it is safe to say that discrimination does not exist in the Philippines. Being a Misso forumer, I am sure that you have read the numerous threads created against the current Miss Universe Philippines and how she is relentlessly discriminated by others. During the Miss Universe Canada whereas the issue of a transgender woman participating in it stirred worldwide controversy, did you not see the number of Filipinos on this Forum who were totally and are still against it?

I have no knowledge of your awareness of how transgender women are treated in the Philippine society, but to name a few, they are not recognized and protected by the law; they are not given access to basic necessities other citizens are provided; social benefits are impossible to attain because of who and what they are; and religion do not recognize them or better yet they are treated like "excomunicados." With these facts, diversity is out of range in the realms acceptance and tolerance.

If none of these social dilemas exist in the Philippine society, then we all can say the Philippines is in the league of Canada in terms of pageant diversity.

The TS was about how diverse Canada is in picking winners. There was no mention about Transgender women so I dont know why your keep on thrusting that issue on my throat! I cannot answer matter pertinent to how Filipinos treat Transgender coz thats a different issue or topic. I am only raising my comparison since we have had winners of different race like Canada does, regardless whether they were accepted favorably by the majority or not.

if you want to make an issue about TRANSGENDER WOMEN, or how they are being treated anywhere else like the Philippines then make your owen TS.

True that the thread focuses on diversity of winners according to their ethnicity, but to tag Canada as diverse and for you to compare it to the Philippines is irresponsible and lack senstivity. Canada is not termed diverse because they choose the winners out of nowhere but through the principles or ideals that beauty is beneath skin color, no matter what origin and background of the winners may be. Canada is diverse because they are open to all women who aspire to be recognized and share their totality as women.

The Philippines can pick winners with different racial backgrounds or ethnic makeups, but if the Filipino people express their dislikes in terms of whether the girl is too white, or too black, or not Filipina looking enough, or stereotypical of a "tsimay," that's discrimination (i.e., Jennifer Cortez, Isable Lopez, Desiree Verdadero, Perfida Limpin, Violeta Naluz, and all others who people cannot phatom how and why they won).

I brought up the issue of transgender women in this discussion because through their participation, or at least through Jenna Talackova's participation, in the recently concluded Miss Universe Canada, I can totally deduce that Canada is indeed diverse. The Philippines can only strive to be in the league of Canada in terms of diversity.

I think you are very much pre-occupied with what you read here in Misso. I dont think its fair to generalize that we are discriminatory just because there are Pinoys here who bash our winners. Maybe Im naive or wrong, but can you show me data or proof that MAJORITY of Pinoys dont prefer fair-skinned Filipinas? I may have missed looking at those figures or proofs.

However, since you have said that we can pick winners with different racial background, isnt this DIVERSITY which this TS was all about? This is what I have been pointing out.

My comment is based on what the TS was all about, nothing else. It is factual, period!

Of course, you will still insist that we are DISCRIMINATORY, no matter what. Thats your opinion, so I will respect it even if I totally disagree on it. If that makes you happy, I will give it to you. Enjoy the rest of your day.

[MISS_TWIX]

Canada is a haven of different nationalities because most people are immigrants. That's why theyre pretty consistent on sending girls which are of different heritage.. There are only "few" authentic Canadians, most Canadians had their nationalities through naturalization..

[Crisboli]

Venezuela, but we, in a different way, our girls are mostly venezuelan (birth) but with so many different roots.

2006 Ly Jonaitis (Lithuania)
2007 Dayana Mendoza (She is a Criolla 100% -i think- )
2008 Stefania Fernandez (Ukraine / Poland / Spain)
2009 Marelisa Gibson (Sweden)
2010 Vanessa Goncalvez (Portuguese)
2011 Irene Esser (Hungary/germany)

[Vladrak]

Canada is a haven of different nationalities because most people are immigrants. That's why theyre pretty consistent on sending girls which are of different heritage.. There are only "few" authentic Canadians, most Canadians had their nationalities through naturalization..

I agree with you Miss Twix, but the reason That i singled out Canada was that there are many countries which have a diverse population, take USA for example, it has a very multiracial population, Native Americans, Caucasian Aamericans, black americans, latinos, indians, chinese, other east asians, Middle eastern people, polynesians and so on but in their long history of the Miss USA peagent, how much diversity is there, most of their winners are caucasian americans with a few black americans thrown in and to my knowledge 1 middle eastern winner and they are yet to have a native american winner. On the other hand looking at the results of MUC from 1998, almost every year they have a winner with mixed heritage.

I respect the various national peagents as they believe that they are selecting the best women to represent them but my heart belongs to MUC for their open mind and welcoming heart

[kurarachibana]

RENETTE CRUZ-represented canada in 1996 MISS UNIVERSE in las vegas and she's a filipina.....

[PaulaTaylor]

Canada was colonized by the French, and then the British (which won the war over their Frenchies) anf took everything from the Aboriginal people. If you vividly thinking about the phrase "crowning Canadians itself" , you may encounter cases in which missUCanada has never actually crowned a[n] lady with aboriginal descent, opposing those phrases in such way. Just to think about it. love this thread btw! And it's true that Canadian is really big upon immigration

[DivabyNature]

I cant help but agree with you on this. I guess the same can be said to US, Philippines, Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia and other European Countries. They picked winners regardless whether they look local or of mix race.

Can you honestly say that the Philippines is in the same league as Canada when it comes to nondiscrimination of transgender women? Better yet, can you say that all Filipinos do not discriminate against women whose skin color is dark and labeled as "katulong-looking"? Or is it not true that only fair skinned women are favored by the majority of people to represent the Philippines?

I dont think Venus Raj, Miriam Q, Isabel Lopez or Chat Silayan (+) are fair-skinned. They are of Malay race (brown if thats what i think some people call it. Even L. Felipe, even if not a winner isnt fair-skinned. My point was, we had Chinita-looking winners, caucasian race (mix),and "brown"-colored.

I knew you were going to mention those names, but the question is "can you really say that the majority of Filipinos wholeheartedly accepted those beauty queens to represent the Philippines"? As much as I can remember, except for Miriam Quiambao and Chat Silayan, Venus Raj had a whole lot of detractors right after she won the national pageant though her supporters outnumbered the latter. The same as with Isabel Lopez who received her fair share of negative criticism from the pageant fans.

The perspectives of this thread is far beyond what you see. If the two beauty queens you mentioned were never bashed by some of their countrymen on the basis of their skin color, then it is safe to say that discrimination does not exist in the Philippines. Being a Misso forumer, I am sure that you have read the numerous threads created against the current Miss Universe Philippines and how she is relentlessly discriminated by others. During the Miss Universe Canada whereas the issue of a transgender woman participating in it stirred worldwide controversy, did you not see the number of Filipinos on this Forum who were totally and are still against it?

I have no knowledge of your awareness of how transgender women are treated in the Philippine society, but to name a few, they are not recognized and protected by the law; they are not given access to basic necessities other citizens are provided; social benefits are impossible to attain because of who and what they are; and religion do not recognize them or better yet they are treated like "excomunicados." With these facts, diversity is out of range in the realms acceptance and tolerance.

If none of these social dilemas exist in the Philippine society, then we all can say the Philippines is in the league of Canada in terms of pageant diversity.

The TS was about how diverse Canada is in picking winners. There was no mention about Transgender women so I dont know why your keep on thrusting that issue on my throat! I cannot answer matter pertinent to how Filipinos treat Transgender coz thats a different issue or topic. I am only raising my comparison since we have had winners of different race like Canada does, regardless whether they were accepted favorably by the majority or not.

if you want to make an issue about TRANSGENDER WOMEN, or how they are being treated anywhere else like the Philippines then make your owen TS.

True that the thread focuses on diversity of winners according to their ethnicity, but to tag Canada as diverse and for you to compare it to the Philippines is irresponsible and lack senstivity. Canada is not termed diverse because they choose the winners out of nowhere but through the principles or ideals that beauty is beneath skin color, no matter what origin and background of the winners may be. Canada is diverse because they are open to all women who aspire to be recognized and share their totality as women.

The Philippines can pick winners with different racial backgrounds or ethnic makeups, but if the Filipino people express their dislikes in terms of whether the girl is too white, or too black, or not Filipina looking enough, or stereotypical of a "tsimay," that's discrimination (i.e., Jennifer Cortez, Isable Lopez, Desiree Verdadero, Perfida Limpin, Violeta Naluz, and all others who people cannot phatom how and why they won).

I brought up the issue of transgender women in this discussion because through their participation, or at least through Jenna Talackova's participation, in the recently concluded Miss Universe Canada, I can totally deduce that Canada is indeed diverse. The Philippines can only strive to be in the league of Canada in terms of diversity.

I think you are very much pre-occupied with what you read here in Misso. I dont think its fair to generalize that we are discriminatory just because there are Pinoys here who bash our winners. Maybe Im naive or wrong, but can you show me data or proof that MAJORITY of Pinoys dont prefer fair-skinned Filipinas? I may have missed looking at those figures or proofs.

However, since you have said that we can pick winners with different racial background, isnt this DIVERSITY which this TS was all about? This is what I have been pointing out.

My comment is based on what the TS was all about, nothing else. It is factual, period!

Of course, you will still insist that we are DISCRIMINATORY, no matter what. Thats your opinion, so I will respect it even if I totally disagree on it. If that makes you happy, I will give it to you. Enjoy the rest of your day.

1. I, for one, know how to limit my statements so as not to generalize and be "discriminating," "stereotyping," or "biased." That is utterly irrational.

2. "...Pinoys don't prefer fair-skinned Filipinas"? A scientific research need not be done to prove that some Filipinos prefer fair skin to be beautiful and associate dark skin to domestic helpers. It has been in the society's culture that the prior is to upper class and the latter is to lower class.

3. Given that Canada selects their pageant winners regardless of racial background, do you hear anyone complain? When the Philippines selects their pageant winners, do you hear comments like "my maid is prettier than her," "her knees and armpits are so dark she looks so dirty," or "my yaya has better skin than her."

4. Yes, picking winners regardless of their racial background is diversity. But if some people cannot accept the fact that the winners are different from the "lot," then diversity fails. Comparing Canada to Philippines in terms of diversity is a fail as well.

5. I will not insist that all Filipinos resort to discrimination because it is not true. Some are!

[era]

RENETTE CRUZ-represented canada in 1996 MISS UNIVERSE in las vegas and she's a filipina.....

check!!! two filipina joined in that edition of miss universe: canada and philippines

[malexreyes]

I cant help but agree with you on this. I guess the same can be said to US, Philippines, Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia and other European Countries. They picked winners regardless whether they look local or of mix race.

Can you honestly say that the Philippines is in the same league as Canada when it comes to nondiscrimination of transgender women? Better yet, can you say that all Filipinos do not discriminate against women whose skin color is dark and labeled as "katulong-looking"? Or is it not true that only fair skinned women are favored by the majority of people to represent the Philippines?

I dont think Venus Raj, Miriam Q, Isabel Lopez or Chat Silayan (+) are fair-skinned. They are of Malay race (brown if thats what i think some people call it. Even L. Felipe, even if not a winner isnt fair-skinned. My point was, we had Chinita-looking winners, caucasian race (mix),and "brown"-colored.

I knew you were going to mention those names, but the question is "can you really say that the majority of Filipinos wholeheartedly accepted those beauty queens to represent the Philippines"? As much as I can remember, except for Miriam Quiambao and Chat Silayan, Venus Raj had a whole lot of detractors right after she won the national pageant though her supporters outnumbered the latter. The same as with Isabel Lopez who received her fair share of negative criticism from the pageant fans.

The perspectives of this thread is far beyond what you see. If the two beauty queens you mentioned were never bashed by some of their countrymen on the basis of their skin color, then it is safe to say that discrimination does not exist in the Philippines. Being a Misso forumer, I am sure that you have read the numerous threads created against the current Miss Universe Philippines and how she is relentlessly discriminated by others. During the Miss Universe Canada whereas the issue of a transgender woman participating in it stirred worldwide controversy, did you not see the number of Filipinos on this Forum who were totally and are still against it?

I have no knowledge of your awareness of how transgender women are treated in the Philippine society, but to name a few, they are not recognized and protected by the law; they are not given access to basic necessities other citizens are provided; social benefits are impossible to attain because of who and what they are; and religion do not recognize them or better yet they are treated like "excomunicados." With these facts, diversity is out of range in the realms acceptance and tolerance.

If none of these social dilemas exist in the Philippine society, then we all can say the Philippines is in the league of Canada in terms of pageant diversity.

The TS was about how diverse Canada is in picking winners. There was no mention about Transgender women so I dont know why your keep on thrusting that issue on my throat! I cannot answer matter pertinent to how Filipinos treat Transgender coz thats a different issue or topic. I am only raising my comparison since we have had winners of different race like Canada does, regardless whether they were accepted favorably by the majority or not.

if you want to make an issue about TRANSGENDER WOMEN, or how they are being treated anywhere else like the Philippines then make your owen TS.

True that the thread focuses on diversity of winners according to their ethnicity, but to tag Canada as diverse and for you to compare it to the Philippines is irresponsible and lack senstivity. Canada is not termed diverse because they choose the winners out of nowhere but through the principles or ideals that beauty is beneath skin color, no matter what origin and background of the winners may be. Canada is diverse because they are open to all women who aspire to be recognized and share their totality as women.

The Philippines can pick winners with different racial backgrounds or ethnic makeups, but if the Filipino people express their dislikes in terms of whether the girl is too white, or too black, or not Filipina looking enough, or stereotypical of a "tsimay," that's discrimination (i.e., Jennifer Cortez, Isable Lopez, Desiree Verdadero, Perfida Limpin, Violeta Naluz, and all others who people cannot phatom how and why they won).

I brought up the issue of transgender women in this discussion because through their participation, or at least through Jenna Talackova's participation, in the recently concluded Miss Universe Canada, I can totally deduce that Canada is indeed diverse. The Philippines can only strive to be in the league of Canada in terms of diversity.

I think you are very much pre-occupied with what you read here in Misso. I dont think its fair to generalize that we are discriminatory just because there are Pinoys here who bash our winners. Maybe Im naive or wrong, but can you show me data or proof that MAJORITY of Pinoys dont prefer fair-skinned Filipinas? I may have missed looking at those figures or proofs.

However, since you have said that we can pick winners with different racial background, isnt this DIVERSITY which this TS was all about? This is what I have been pointing out.

My comment is based on what the TS was all about, nothing else. It is factual, period!

Of course, you will still insist that we are DISCRIMINATORY, no matter what. Thats your opinion, so I will respect it even if I totally disagree on it. If that makes you happy, I will give it to you. Enjoy the rest of your day.

1. I, for one, know how to limit my statements so as not to generalize and be "discriminating," "stereotyping," or "biased." That is utterly irrational.

2. "...Pinoys don't prefer fair-skinned Filipinas"? A scientific research need not be done to prove that some Filipinos prefer fair skin to be beautiful and associate dark skin to domestic helpers. It has been in the society's culture that the prior is to upper class and the latter is to lower class.

3. Given that Canada selects their pageant winners regardless of racial background, do you hear anyone complain? When the Philippines selects their pageant winners, do you hear comments like "my maid is prettier than her," "her knees and armpits are so dark she looks so dirty," or "my yaya has better skin than her."

4. Yes, picking winners regardless of their racial background is diversity. But if some people cannot accept the fact that the winners are different from the "lot," then diversity fails. Comparing Canada to Philippines in terms of diversity is a fail as well.

5. I will not insist that all Filipinos resort to discrimination because it is not true. Some are!

My last response - READ YOUR COMMENTS.

1. You, did not generalize? I dont see you using the word SOME or FEW.
2. Now, you used SOME (only NOW) but did you awhile ago? Well thats your opinion but mine is different. Period.
3. Thats democracy or freedom of speech, sometimes beyond board though. How can you be sure that there were no negative comments against their winners? Just because theres none here in Misso? awwww...
4. Again, my first comment was saying that we are also diverse in choosing winners. If only SOME cannot accept the winners, then DIVERSITY (conclusively?) fails? Huh?
5. Now, finally you changed your tone and saying NOT all of us resort to discrimination. Thats good!

Thanks and good night!

[DivabyNature]

I cant help but agree with you on this. I guess the same can be said to US, Philippines, Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia and other European Countries. They picked winners regardless whether they look local or of mix race.

Can you honestly say that the Philippines is in the same league as Canada when it comes to nondiscrimination of transgender women? Better yet, can you say that all Filipinos do not discriminate against women whose skin color is dark and labeled as "katulong-looking"? Or is it not true that only fair skinned women are favored by the majority of people to represent the Philippines?

I dont think Venus Raj, Miriam Q, Isabel Lopez or Chat Silayan (+) are fair-skinned. They are of Malay race (brown if thats what i think some people call it. Even L. Felipe, even if not a winner isnt fair-skinned. My point was, we had Chinita-looking winners, caucasian race (mix),and "brown"-colored.

I knew you were going to mention those names, but the question is "can you really say that the majority of Filipinos wholeheartedly accepted those beauty queens to represent the Philippines"? As much as I can remember, except for Miriam Quiambao and Chat Silayan, Venus Raj had a whole lot of detractors right after she won the national pageant though her supporters outnumbered the latter. The same as with Isabel Lopez who received her fair share of negative criticism from the pageant fans.

The perspectives of this thread is far beyond what you see. If the two beauty queens you mentioned were never bashed by some of their countrymen on the basis of their skin color, then it is safe to say that discrimination does not exist in the Philippines. Being a Misso forumer, I am sure that you have read the numerous threads created against the current Miss Universe Philippines and how she is relentlessly discriminated by others. During the Miss Universe Canada whereas the issue of a transgender woman participating in it stirred worldwide controversy, did you not see the number of Filipinos on this Forum who were totally and are still against it?

I have no knowledge of your awareness of how transgender women are treated in the Philippine society, but to name a few, they are not recognized and protected by the law; they are not given access to basic necessities other citizens are provided; social benefits are impossible to attain because of who and what they are; and religion do not recognize them or better yet they are treated like "excomunicados." With these facts, diversity is out of range in the realms acceptance and tolerance.

If none of these social dilemas exist in the Philippine society, then we all can say the Philippines is in the league of Canada in terms of pageant diversity.

The TS was about how diverse Canada is in picking winners. There was no mention about Transgender women so I dont know why your keep on thrusting that issue on my throat! I cannot answer matter pertinent to how Filipinos treat Transgender coz thats a different issue or topic. I am only raising my comparison since we have had winners of different race like Canada does, regardless whether they were accepted favorably by the majority or not.

if you want to make an issue about TRANSGENDER WOMEN, or how they are being treated anywhere else like the Philippines then make your owen TS.

True that the thread focuses on diversity of winners according to their ethnicity, but to tag Canada as diverse and for you to compare it to the Philippines is irresponsible and lack senstivity. Canada is not termed diverse because they choose the winners out of nowhere but through the principles or ideals that beauty is beneath skin color, no matter what origin and background of the winners may be. Canada is diverse because they are open to all women who aspire to be recognized and share their totality as women.

The Philippines can pick winners with different racial backgrounds or ethnic makeups, but if the Filipino people express their dislikes in terms of whether the girl is too white, or too black, or not Filipina looking enough, or stereotypical of a "tsimay," that's discrimination (i.e., Jennifer Cortez, Isable Lopez, Desiree Verdadero, Perfida Limpin, Violeta Naluz, and all others who people cannot phatom how and why they won).

I brought up the issue of transgender women in this discussion because through their participation, or at least through Jenna Talackova's participation, in the recently concluded Miss Universe Canada, I can totally deduce that Canada is indeed diverse. The Philippines can only strive to be in the league of Canada in terms of diversity.

I think you are very much pre-occupied with what you read here in Misso. I dont think its fair to generalize that we are discriminatory just because there are Pinoys here who bash our winners. Maybe Im naive or wrong, but can you show me data or proof that MAJORITY of Pinoys dont prefer fair-skinned Filipinas? I may have missed looking at those figures or proofs.

However, since you have said that we can pick winners with different racial background, isnt this DIVERSITY which this TS was all about? This is what I have been pointing out.

My comment is based on what the TS was all about, nothing else. It is factual, period!

Of course, you will still insist that we are DISCRIMINATORY, no matter what. Thats your opinion, so I will respect it even if I totally disagree on it. If that makes you happy, I will give it to you. Enjoy the rest of your day.

1. I, for one, know how to limit my statements so as not to generalize and be "discriminating," "stereotyping," or "biased." That is utterly irrational.

2. "...Pinoys don't prefer fair-skinned Filipinas"? A scientific research need not be done to prove that some Filipinos prefer fair skin to be beautiful and associate dark skin to domestic helpers. It has been in the society's culture that the prior is to upper class and the latter is to lower class.

3. Given that Canada selects their pageant winners regardless of racial background, do you hear anyone complain? When the Philippines selects their pageant winners, do you hear comments like "my maid is prettier than her," "her knees and armpits are so dark she looks so dirty," or "my yaya has better skin than her."

4. Yes, picking winners regardless of their racial background is diversity. But if some people cannot accept the fact that the winners are different from the "lot," then diversity fails. Comparing Canada to Philippines in terms of diversity is a fail as well.

5. I will not insist that all Filipinos resort to discrimination because it is not true. Some are!

My last response - READ YOUR COMMENTS.

1. You, did not generalize? I dont see you using the word SOME or FEW.
2. Now, you used SOME (only NOW) but did you awhile ago? Well thats your opinion but mine is different. Period.
3. Thats democracy or freedom of speech, sometimes beyond board though. How can you be sure that there were no negative comments against their winners? Just because theres none here in Misso? awwww...
4. Again, my first comment was saying that we are also diverse in choosing winners. If only SOME cannot accept the winners, then DIVERSITY (conclusively?) fails? Huh?
5. Now, finally you changed your tone and saying NOT all of us resort to discrimination. Thats good!

Thanks and good night!

1. I did not generalize because I did not say "all" Filipinos, did I?

2. I used "some" on my later posts to give emphasis on "nongeneralization."

3. What is democracy or freedom of speech? To express false claims? If and when you say there can be negative comments or reaction from Canadians when a winner has different racial background, the preponderence is on you.

4. Yes, diverse in choosing winners. But is the practice of choosing winners diverse when a certain group of people discriminates against the winners based on their racial background?

5. I have not changed my tone nor thoughts regarding the existence of discrimination in the Philippines. You may not resort to discrimination but are you sure that others do the same. Earlier today, I was reading a blog by Ms. Melanie who is also a forumer here. He mentioned that after graduation from college, he applied for a job at a company. Asked in the application was if he was gay. He answered "yes," and to no avail, he was the only one sent home out of numerous applicants. Now, tell the whole world that there is no discrimination in the Philippines.

[Dionysus]

that's why I adore Canadians. they're so diverse & more accepting

[DivabyNature]

that's why I adore Canadians. they're so diverse & more accepting

True! Not many countries are blessed to have diverse culture like Canada.

[Legendary Shaymin]

True! I really think being a Canadian or even American is only a nationality and not an ethnicity. And I love that they are open-minded about their cultural diversity and they value each other as Canadians and not as Indians/Latinos/Blacks etc.

[29rfrye]

One of the reasons that I love the Miss Canada Universe Peagent is that it is one of the most (if not the most) diverse peagents in the world. We have had winners whose heritage ranges from Asian (India, China) to European (UK, Bulgaria, Armenia, Russia, Moldova, France, Hungary Norway, Ukraine) to South America (Brazil) to the middle East (Iran) and from Canada itself.

There is no discrimination regarding the heritage and no pathetic outcry that the winner does not look Canadian (as was the case in Miss Fiji World, where the public went mad coz the winner did not look Fijian). Every girl has an equal chance to win irrespective of their heritage, race, religion colour (and now even gender).

We often see that some misso forumers start saying that a particular contestant does not look like a person from the country that she is representing, but who are we to judge on how a nations people should look like.

HATSOFF to the MUC organisation for your great work. You have shown that Canada is a multiracial country and I really hope that other national peagents take your que and start becoming more diverse in picking their winners.




Year Name Heritage

2012 Sahar Biniaz Iran, India
2011 Chelsae Durocher France
2010 Elena Semikina Russia, Moldova
2009 Mariana Valente Brazil
2008 Samantha Tajik Iran
2007 Inga Skaya Russia
2006 Alice Panikian Bulgaria, Armenia
2005 Natalie Glebova Russia
2004 Venessa Fisher United Kingdom
2003 Leanne Marie Cecile France
2002 Neelam Verma India
2001 Cristina Rémond France, Hungary
2000 Kim Yee China, Ukraine
1999 Shannon McArthur Canada
1998 Juliana Thiessen Norway

What do you guys think?? Should other countries start to be as diverse as the Miss Universe Canada??

so Canada doesnt have a pure beauty queen? hahaha you should have to be half to be a winner?

[Yuffie]

One of the reasons that I love the Miss Canada Universe Peagent is that it is one of the most (if not the most) diverse peagents in the world. We have had winners whose heritage ranges from Asian (India, China) to European (UK, Bulgaria, Armenia, Russia, Moldova, France, Hungary Norway, Ukraine) to South America (Brazil) to the middle East (Iran) and from Canada itself.

There is no discrimination regarding the heritage and no pathetic outcry that the winner does not look Canadian (as was the case in Miss Fiji World, where the public went mad coz the winner did not look Fijian). Every girl has an equal chance to win irrespective of their heritage, race, religion colour (and now even gender).

We often see that some misso forumers start saying that a particular contestant does not look like a person from the country that she is representing, but who are we to judge on how a nations people should look like.

HATSOFF to the MUC organisation for your great work. You have shown that Canada is a multiracial country and I really hope that other national peagents take your que and start becoming more diverse in picking their winners.




Year Name Heritage

2012 Sahar Biniaz Iran, India
2011 Chelsae Durocher France
2010 Elena Semikina Russia, Moldova
2009 Mariana Valente Brazil
2008 Samantha Tajik Iran
2007 Inga Skaya Russia
2006 Alice Panikian Bulgaria, Armenia
2005 Natalie Glebova Russia
2004 Venessa Fisher United Kingdom
2003 Leanne Marie Cecile France
2002 Neelam Verma India
2001 Cristina Rémond France, Hungary
2000 Kim Yee China, Ukraine
1999 Shannon McArthur Canada
1998 Juliana Thiessen Norway

What do you guys think?? Should other countries start to be as diverse as the Miss Universe Canada??

so Canada doesnt have a pure beauty queen? hahaha you should have to be half to be a winner?

Like USA, Canada is a land of immigrants, main reason for it being multiracial. So there's nothing wrong if they crown ladies with different ethnic backgrounds.

[HIH_Maria_Pavlovna]

I cant help but agree with you on this. I guess the same can be said to US, Philippines, Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia and other European Countries. They picked winners regardless whether they look local or of mix race.

Can you honestly say that the Philippines is in the same league as Canada when it comes to nondiscrimination of transgender women? Better yet, can you say that all Filipinos do not discriminate against women whose skin color is dark and labeled as "katulong-looking"? Or is it not true that only fair skinned women are favored by the majority of people to represent the Philippines?

I dont think Venus Raj, Miriam Q, Isabel Lopez or Chat Silayan (+) are fair-skinned. They are of Malay race (brown if thats what i think some people call it. Even L. Felipe, even if not a winner isnt fair-skinned. My point was, we had Chinita-looking winners, caucasian race (mix),and "brown"-colored.

I knew you were going to mention those names, but the question is "can you really say that the majority of Filipinos wholeheartedly accepted those beauty queens to represent the Philippines"? As much as I can remember, except for Miriam Quiambao and Chat Silayan, Venus Raj had a whole lot of detractors right after she won the national pageant though her supporters outnumbered the latter. The same as with Isabel Lopez who received her fair share of negative criticism from the pageant fans.

The perspectives of this thread is far beyond what you see. If the two beauty queens you mentioned were never bashed by some of their countrymen on the basis of their skin color, then it is safe to say that discrimination does not exist in the Philippines. Being a Misso forumer, I am sure that you have read the numerous threads created against the current Miss Universe Philippines and how she is relentlessly discriminated by others. During the Miss Universe Canada whereas the issue of a transgender woman participating in it stirred worldwide controversy, did you not see the number of Filipinos on this Forum who were totally and are still against it?

I have no knowledge of your awareness of how transgender women are treated in the Philippine society, but to name a few, they are not recognized and protected by the law; they are not given access to basic necessities other citizens are provided; social benefits are impossible to attain because of who and what they are; and religion do not recognize them or better yet they are treated like "excomunicados." With these facts, diversity is out of range in the realms acceptance and tolerance.

If none of these social dilemas exist in the Philippine society, then we all can say the Philippines is in the league of Canada in terms of pageant diversity.

The TS was about how diverse Canada is in picking winners. There was no mention about Transgender women so I dont know why your keep on thrusting that issue on my throat! I cannot answer matter pertinent to how Filipinos treat Transgender coz thats a different issue or topic. I am only raising my comparison since we have had winners of different race like Canada does, regardless whether they were accepted favorably by the majority or not.

if you want to make an issue about TRANSGENDER WOMEN, or how they are being treated anywhere else like the Philippines then make your owen TS.

True that the thread focuses on diversity of winners according to their ethnicity, but to tag Canada as diverse and for you to compare it to the Philippines is irresponsible and lack senstivity. Canada is not termed diverse because they choose the winners out of nowhere but through the principles or ideals that beauty is beneath skin color, no matter what origin and background of the winners may be. Canada is diverse because they are open to all women who aspire to be recognized and share their totality as women.

The Philippines can pick winners with different racial backgrounds or ethnic makeups, but if the Filipino people express their dislikes in terms of whether the girl is too white, or too black, or not Filipina looking enough, or stereotypical of a "tsimay," that's discrimination (i.e., Jennifer Cortez, Isable Lopez, Desiree Verdadero, Perfida Limpin, Violeta Naluz, and all others who people cannot phatom how and why they won).

I brought up the issue of transgender women in this discussion because through their participation, or at least through Jenna Talackova's participation, in the recently concluded Miss Universe Canada, I can totally deduce that Canada is indeed diverse. The Philippines can only strive to be in the league of Canada in terms of diversity.

I think you are very much pre-occupied with what you read here in Misso. I dont think its fair to generalize that we are discriminatory just because there are Pinoys here who bash our winners. Maybe Im naive or wrong, but can you show me data or proof that MAJORITY of Pinoys dont prefer fair-skinned Filipinas? I may have missed looking at those figures or proofs.

However, since you have said that we can pick winners with different racial background, isnt this DIVERSITY which this TS was all about? This is what I have been pointing out.

My comment is based on what the TS was all about, nothing else. It is factual, period!

Of course, you will still insist that we are DISCRIMINATORY, no matter what. Thats your opinion, so I will respect it even if I totally disagree on it. If that makes you happy, I will give it to you. Enjoy the rest of your day.

1. I, for one, know how to limit my statements so as not to generalize and be "discriminating," "stereotyping," or "biased." That is utterly irrational.

2. "...Pinoys don't prefer fair-skinned Filipinas"? A scientific research need not be done to prove that some Filipinos prefer fair skin to be beautiful and associate dark skin to domestic helpers. It has been in the society's culture that the prior is to upper class and the latter is to lower class.

3. Given that Canada selects their pageant winners regardless of racial background, do you hear anyone complain? When the Philippines selects their pageant winners, do you hear comments like "my maid is prettier than her," "her knees and armpits are so dark she looks so dirty," or "my yaya has better skin than her."

4. Yes, picking winners regardless of their racial background is diversity. But if some people cannot accept the fact that the winners are different from the "lot," then diversity fails. Comparing Canada to Philippines in terms of diversity is a fail as well.

5. I will not insist that all Filipinos resort to discrimination because it is not true. Some are!

My last response - READ YOUR COMMENTS.

1. You, did not generalize? I dont see you using the word SOME or FEW.
2. Now, you used SOME (only NOW) but did you awhile ago? Well thats your opinion but mine is different. Period.
3. Thats democracy or freedom of speech, sometimes beyond board though. How can you be sure that there were no negative comments against their winners? Just because theres none here in Misso? awwww...
4. Again, my first comment was saying that we are also diverse in choosing winners. If only SOME cannot accept the winners, then DIVERSITY (conclusively?) fails? Huh?
5. Now, finally you changed your tone and saying NOT all of us resort to discrimination. Thats good!

Thanks and good night!

1. I did not generalize because I did not say "all" Filipinos, did I?

2. I used "some" on my later posts to give emphasis on "nongeneralization."

3. What is democracy or freedom of speech? To express false claims? If and when you say there can be negative comments or reaction from Canadians when a winner has different racial background, the preponderence is on you.

4. Yes, diverse in choosing winners. But is the practice of choosing winners diverse when a certain group of people discriminates against the winners based on their racial background?

5. I have not changed my tone nor thoughts regarding the existence of discrimination in the Philippines. You may not resort to discrimination but are you sure that others do the same. Earlier today, I was reading a blog by Ms. Melanie who is also a forumer here. He mentioned that after graduation from college, he applied for a job at a company. Asked in the application was if he was gay. He answered "yes," and to no avail, he was the only one sent home out of numerous applicants. Now, tell the whole world that there is no discrimination in the Philippines.

**************************************
Of course there's discrimination in the Philippines (in beauty contests or in any other aspect of life), just as there is discrimination in Canada. There are people in the Philippines who are racists, ageists, sexists, chauvinists, fundamentalists, etc. etc. etc, just as there are these types of people in Canada, and elsewhere in the world, even the Vatican!

Unless you have made a survey and asked every other Canadian of their personal stand on a wide variety of issues that relate to race and sexual orientation (and other life aspect), I tend to be wary of your seemingly skewed perspective of the Canadian society... Canada surely is a good country to live in - - - it could even be a model country in terms of its economy and social structures- - - but to present it as a utopia, is just way out there.

I love the country of my birth; it may have its flaws, but I know that it shall always remain steadfast in its resolve to be better. I am Filipino.

To digress - - - Carlos P. Romulo wrote an essay about the Filipino; I learned this in 6th grade, and since then it has remained to be my most valuable armament when there are people (even Filipinos themselves) who put down the Philippines and its peoples. It is, "I am a Filipino" by C. P. Romulo.

[van1k2]

Wow anotehr great thread turned into an argument abt guess what???The Philippines............ah well.......

[MISS SWEET THING]

One of the reasons that I love the Miss Canada Universe Peagent is that it is one of the most (if not the most) diverse peagents in the world. We have had winners whose heritage ranges from Asian (India, China) to European (UK, Bulgaria, Armenia, Russia, Moldova, France, Hungary Norway, Ukraine) to South America (Brazil) to the middle East (Iran) and from Canada itself.

There is no discrimination regarding the heritage and no pathetic outcry that the winner does not look Canadian (as was the case in Miss Fiji World, where the public went mad coz the winner did not look Fijian). Every girl has an equal chance to win irrespective of their heritage, race, religion colour (and now even gender).

We often see that some misso forumers start saying that a particular contestant does not look like a person from the country that she is representing, but who are we to judge on how a nations people should look like.

HATSOFF to the MUC organisation for your great work. You have shown that Canada is a multiracial country and I really hope that other national peagents take your que and start becoming more diverse in picking their winners.




Year Name Heritage

2012 Sahar Biniaz Iran, India
2011 Chelsae Durocher France
2010 Elena Semikina Russia, Moldova
2009 Mariana Valente Brazil
2008 Samantha Tajik Iran
2007 Inga Skaya Russia
2006 Alice Panikian Bulgaria, Armenia
2005 Natalie Glebova Russia
2004 Venessa Fisher United Kingdom
2003 Leanne Marie Cecile France
2002 Neelam Verma India
2001 Cristina Rémond France, Hungary
2000 Kim Yee China, Ukraine
1999 Shannon McArthur Canada
1998 Juliana Thiessen Norway

What do you guys think?? Should other countries start to be as diverse as the Miss Universe Canada??

good effort but lame thread,

[DivabyNature]

I cant help but agree with you on this. I guess the same can be said to US, Philippines, Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia and other European Countries. They picked winners regardless whether they look local or of mix race.

Can you honestly say that the Philippines is in the same league as Canada when it comes to nondiscrimination of transgender women? Better yet, can you say that all Filipinos do not discriminate against women whose skin color is dark and labeled as "katulong-looking"? Or is it not true that only fair skinned women are favored by the majority of people to represent the Philippines?

I dont think Venus Raj, Miriam Q, Isabel Lopez or Chat Silayan (+) are fair-skinned. They are of Malay race (brown if thats what i think some people call it. Even L. Felipe, even if not a winner isnt fair-skinned. My point was, we had Chinita-looking winners, caucasian race (mix),and "brown"-colored.

I knew you were going to mention those names, but the question is "can you really say that the majority of Filipinos wholeheartedly accepted those beauty queens to represent the Philippines"? As much as I can remember, except for Miriam Quiambao and Chat Silayan, Venus Raj had a whole lot of detractors right after she won the national pageant though her supporters outnumbered the latter. The same as with Isabel Lopez who received her fair share of negative criticism from the pageant fans.

The perspectives of this thread is far beyond what you see. If the two beauty queens you mentioned were never bashed by some of their countrymen on the basis of their skin color, then it is safe to say that discrimination does not exist in the Philippines. Being a Misso forumer, I am sure that you have read the numerous threads created against the current Miss Universe Philippines and how she is relentlessly discriminated by others. During the Miss Universe Canada whereas the issue of a transgender woman participating in it stirred worldwide controversy, did you not see the number of Filipinos on this Forum who were totally and are still against it?

I have no knowledge of your awareness of how transgender women are treated in the Philippine society, but to name a few, they are not recognized and protected by the law; they are not given access to basic necessities other citizens are provided; social benefits are impossible to attain because of who and what they are; and religion do not recognize them or better yet they are treated like "excomunicados." With these facts, diversity is out of range in the realms acceptance and tolerance.

If none of these social dilemas exist in the Philippine society, then we all can say the Philippines is in the league of Canada in terms of pageant diversity.

The TS was about how diverse Canada is in picking winners. There was no mention about Transgender women so I dont know why your keep on thrusting that issue on my throat! I cannot answer matter pertinent to how Filipinos treat Transgender coz thats a different issue or topic. I am only raising my comparison since we have had winners of different race like Canada does, regardless whether they were accepted favorably by the majority or not.

if you want to make an issue about TRANSGENDER WOMEN, or how they are being treated anywhere else like the Philippines then make your owen TS.

True that the thread focuses on diversity of winners according to their ethnicity, but to tag Canada as diverse and for you to compare it to the Philippines is irresponsible and lack senstivity. Canada is not termed diverse because they choose the winners out of nowhere but through the principles or ideals that beauty is beneath skin color, no matter what origin and background of the winners may be. Canada is diverse because they are open to all women who aspire to be recognized and share their totality as women.

The Philippines can pick winners with different racial backgrounds or ethnic makeups, but if the Filipino people express their dislikes in terms of whether the girl is too white, or too black, or not Filipina looking enough, or stereotypical of a "tsimay," that's discrimination (i.e., Jennifer Cortez, Isable Lopez, Desiree Verdadero, Perfida Limpin, Violeta Naluz, and all others who people cannot phatom how and why they won).

I brought up the issue of transgender women in this discussion because through their participation, or at least through Jenna Talackova's participation, in the recently concluded Miss Universe Canada, I can totally deduce that Canada is indeed diverse. The Philippines can only strive to be in the league of Canada in terms of diversity.

I think you are very much pre-occupied with what you read here in Misso. I dont think its fair to generalize that we are discriminatory just because there are Pinoys here who bash our winners. Maybe Im naive or wrong, but can you show me data or proof that MAJORITY of Pinoys dont prefer fair-skinned Filipinas? I may have missed looking at those figures or proofs.

However, since you have said that we can pick winners with different racial background, isnt this DIVERSITY which this TS was all about? This is what I have been pointing out.

My comment is based on what the TS was all about, nothing else. It is factual, period!

Of course, you will still insist that we are DISCRIMINATORY, no matter what. Thats your opinion, so I will respect it even if I totally disagree on it. If that makes you happy, I will give it to you. Enjoy the rest of your day.

1. I, for one, know how to limit my statements so as not to generalize and be "discriminating," "stereotyping," or "biased." That is utterly irrational.

2. "...Pinoys don't prefer fair-skinned Filipinas"? A scientific research need not be done to prove that some Filipinos prefer fair skin to be beautiful and associate dark skin to domestic helpers. It has been in the society's culture that the prior is to upper class and the latter is to lower class.

3. Given that Canada selects their pageant winners regardless of racial background, do you hear anyone complain? When the Philippines selects their pageant winners, do you hear comments like "my maid is prettier than her," "her knees and armpits are so dark she looks so dirty," or "my yaya has better skin than her."

4. Yes, picking winners regardless of their racial background is diversity. But if some people cannot accept the fact that the winners are different from the "lot," then diversity fails. Comparing Canada to Philippines in terms of diversity is a fail as well.

5. I will not insist that all Filipinos resort to discrimination because it is not true. Some are!

My last response - READ YOUR COMMENTS.

1. You, did not generalize? I dont see you using the word SOME or FEW.
2. Now, you used SOME (only NOW) but did you awhile ago? Well thats your opinion but mine is different. Period.
3. Thats democracy or freedom of speech, sometimes beyond board though. How can you be sure that there were no negative comments against their winners? Just because theres none here in Misso? awwww...
4. Again, my first comment was saying that we are also diverse in choosing winners. If only SOME cannot accept the winners, then DIVERSITY (conclusively?) fails? Huh?
5. Now, finally you changed your tone and saying NOT all of us resort to discrimination. Thats good!

Thanks and good night!

1. I did not generalize because I did not say "all" Filipinos, did I?

2. I used "some" on my later posts to give emphasis on "nongeneralization."

3. What is democracy or freedom of speech? To express false claims? If and when you say there can be negative comments or reaction from Canadians when a winner has different racial background, the preponderence is on you.

4. Yes, diverse in choosing winners. But is the practice of choosing winners diverse when a certain group of people discriminates against the winners based on their racial background?

5. I have not changed my tone nor thoughts regarding the existence of discrimination in the Philippines. You may not resort to discrimination but are you sure that others do the same. Earlier today, I was reading a blog by Ms. Melanie who is also a forumer here. He mentioned that after graduation from college, he applied for a job at a company. Asked in the application was if he was gay. He answered "yes," and to no avail, he was the only one sent home out of numerous applicants. Now, tell the whole world that there is no discrimination in the Philippines.

**************************************
Of course there's discrimination in the Philippines (in beauty contests or in any other aspect of life), just as there is discrimination in Canada. There are people in the Philippines who are racists, ageists, sexists, chauvinists, fundamentalists, etc. etc. etc, just as there are these types of people in Canada, and elsewhere in the world, even the Vatican!

Unless you have made a survey and asked every other Canadian of their personal stand on a wide variety of issues that relate to race and sexual orientation (and other life aspect), I tend to be wary of your seemingly skewed perspective of the Canadian society... Canada surely is a good country to live in - - - it could even be a model country in terms of its economy and social structures- - - but to present it as a utopia, is just way out there.

I love the country of my birth; it may have its flaws, but I know that it shall always remain steadfast in its resolve to be better. I am Filipino.

To digress - - - Carlos P. Romulo wrote an essay about the Filipino; I learned this in 6th grade, and since then it has remained to be my most valuable armament when there are people (even Filipinos themselves) who put down the Philippines and its peoples. It is, "I am a Filipino" by C. P. Romulo.

Great that we agree on some points on the issue but I never intended to present my "skewed" perspective of the Canadian society in the form of "utopia" to mislead others. I base my reasonings on the matter not on the existence of surveys or scientifically performed statistical research regarding acceptance and tolerance, but the existence of laws protecting and recognizing groups of individuals and the willingness of its citizens to uphold and obey those laws. It is my effort to discourage the comparison of Canada and the Philippines when it comes to diversity when we all know that discrimination sits active in the minds of those who are biased, prejudiced and bigotted.

If you read my posts above, you would understand that my motives do not involve putting down the Philippines and it's people but to open their minds and be aware that their actions constitute discrimination. Enumerating them now is useless as I have posted some of them above, and surely this discussion will lead me tagged as a person with "crab mentality" because I say the truth.

And since you mentioned that you are a Filipino with the armament of the ideals of great Filipino politician, Carlos P. Romulo, against those including myself who put down the Philippines and its people, can you now honestly say that every Filipino, young or old, educated or noneducated, rich or poor, fair skinned or dark skinned, understands the true meaning of democracy and the benefits the Philippine Constitution offer its people? Do they limit themselves to voting public officials to say that democracy does exist in the Philippines, or are there more to it than people can comprehend? What I am trying to bring up here is the principles of equality which is clearly stated in the constitution which no one cares to know what it really embodies. And with this, it all brings us back to the topic of "diversity."

[DivabyNature]

Wow anotehr great thread turned into an argument abt guess what???The Philippines............ah well.......

This thread is not all about what you think and feel about the Philippines and its people but the PRINCIPLES OF DIVERSITY which happens to involve an initial poster from the US who is a Filipino and myself.